An insight into the mindset of someone who is persistently late.

[deviantfeline]

There's always loads of posts on AIBU about people who hate those who are persistently late and how there no excuse for it. Also lots of people claiming 'time blindness' or inability to plan that causes it.

I'm often late. I hate it but my brain doesn't seem to be able to calculate periods of time in a way that means I can plan appropriately. Today was one of those even though I thought I totally had this. Reflecting on what went wrong here's a timeline.

I needed to get a train at 12pm to a meeting. They are once an hour and so couldn't miss it. I set an alarm at 11am that told me to go and get ready to leave for the station. It's a 3 minutes drive and a 2 minute walk from the car park. I know that at this time it's hard to get a parking spot so I factor in time to find one. I'll leave at 11.40 ish then. I spent the morning working from home.

11- alarm goes off. I think oh I've got loads of time and carry on working thinking I'll stop at 11.15 and get myself ready.
11.15 - think I'll finish the email I'm writing
11.23 - finish email and pack bag
Realise my make up and hair need a touch up and I've got loads of time so do that
11.32 - result. I'm done and ready to go with time to spare. This is easy! Find coat and shoes, locate car and door keys, put cups in dishwasher, find umbrella as it's now raining and my phone charger, kiss dog goodbye and give her a treat, lock up house.
Get in car. Somehow it's now 11.47?! How the hell did that happen? It was 11.32 wasn't it? Fuck fuck fuck.
11.52 - arrive at car park having had to stop at a zebra for 2 mins for loads of people crossing. Hadn't factored in the high street would busy as it's midday.
No car parks as predicted! Drive back up the street and finally find one. It's 11.58. Grab my stuff and sprint and get on the train as the doors are closing.

Despite my planning i screwed it up again. I've noticed that I have a time blindness for the time it takes between 'I'm ready' and actually going. In my mind that would take 30 seconds yet it somehow took 15 minutes?!

Its almost worse when I leave plenty time as my brain starts telling me I've got time to do other stuff rather then just leaving! Also I can't visualise the time passing since I looked at the time at 11.32 and getting in the car. That time seems to be the black spot for me to time manage with any ability.

Crisis only slightly averted but I'm soo cross with myself. So you 'on timers'. What would you have done differently and what was my biggest error?

ADHD is a disability, not a personality trait.

This is me to a T.

PDA/ADHD undiagnosed.

No advice op but I'm exactly the same!

We’re a family of neurodivergent people and I realised that we all have slightly different interpretations of the phrase “ready to leave”. If I said we needed to be ready to leave at 11am, some family members would be running around looking for keys and chargers, some would be putting their shoes on etc.
I changed to saying “we need to be wheels through the gateposts at 11am” because everyone knows what that means and there is less last-minute chaos these days.
DH would need to put things in the dishwasher before leaving. I don’t. Nothing bad will happen if I come home to dirty dishes. Bad things will happen if I miss the train.

I do make myself stressed, yes. Every time I have to catch a train or similar. Works a treat

OP I could have written this thread - I hate being late but sometimes time dissapears. It's chaotic and stressful!

If I'm leaving for something at mid day, I'd always get ready first thing in the morning and make sure my bag is packed etc so that when it's time to leave I am ready to go already.

I also set alarms as other posters have suggested - not to tell me to get ready, but to help keep me on track. A 15 min alarm to warn me that I need to leave soon is so helpful.

@deviantfeline it's not just time blindness, it's a mindset thing too. Allow yourself to be early with nothing to do. Practice being early and filling the time while waiting for the train.

You don't have to just make it, it's a wonderful freeing feeling to be there early and wait (for someone who used to be late)

Glad you caught the train after all 😂

My mum and one of my sisters are always late and always highly defensive about it. It drives me mad but I've just learned to live with tbh, I daresay there are things about me that drive them mad too.

That's a value judgement. The point is, your time isn't less important. Not to say one doesn't have to make continual effort to find better strategies but this isn't the reason for lateness at all for a number of people.

I think for me it’s this bit…

11.32 - result. I'm done and ready to go with time to spare. This is easy! Find coat and shoes, locate car and door keys, put cups in dishwasher, find umbrella as it's now raining and my phone charger, kiss dog goodbye and give her a treat, lock up house.
Get in car. Somehow it's now 11.47?! How the hell did that happen? It was 11.32 wasn't it? Fuck fuck fuck.

I guess maybe I’m just more aware that these things take time, and I’d factor these in when working out my timings.

Loved your post- always interesting to see different perspectives on things!

It’s not as simple as ND vs NT, I am ND and I have coping strategies. I wasn’t diagnosed until I was 31 but I had these strategies in place from my teen years. Eg. Catching the first bus so I wouldn’t be late and btw I had to catch a 30 minute bus to school then an underground journey so it was no short journey. I was one of a handful of kids in the school by 8am 😅

I didn’t have a name for it but I knew I had issues with being on time so I changed my approach to getting places.

. There has to be an element of personal responsibility by a certain age.

Yes I might have the odd slip up but by and large I’m not late for friends, interviews, events etc. it’s not easy but I work at it because I care and can’t stand the idea of people hanging about for me or looking unprofessional or unprepared if it’s a work situation.

Some of us make all of the efforts we possibly can and it's still not good enough. We put so much effort into doing everything by neurotypical standards that we burnout and slow down and still have trouble managing our time.

There's some evidence that shows we have less purkinjes cells in our brains that are important for making things into automatic responses or habits so we have to always be thinking about the next task. We have trouble with executive function, which is task automation but it makes it extremely hard to start tasks, finish tasks, manage our time, perceive time, prioritise tasks, and fulfil self lead behaviours.

Our brains also work on novelty, urgency and interest but if there are multiple tasks happening, one novel, one urgent, one of interest, then there are collisions within our executive functioning that mean we dysfunction and cannot prioritise which is most important.

An alarm might work a handful of times but having multiple alarms becomes no longer novel, and if something else is urgent or interesting or novel then again it falls down the priority list that most people don't even have to think about because they have a perfectly normal way of executively functioning.

The amount of notebooks, calenders, diaries, alarms, clocks, and other tools I've invested in over my life to make me become on time and more organised only for me to lose them, forget about them, misplace them, get fed up of them etc must be in the hundreds of £ spent so far and I'm no better off for it, but nobody would see this or understand this. They'd just think I'm lazy and cannot manage my time and have no regard for them or their time which is just not true.

Also you don't need to have ADHD to have trouble with executive functioning. Lots of things can cause problems with executive functioning. You can't change how someone's brain works by shaming them into it. That just adds more trauma which shock horror can lead to executive dysfunction.

I am exactly the same and used to always be late and it was a complete panic to catch trains etc. It because I used to plan out my timings to arrive exactly on time which left zero time for any issues. I absolutely hated it and hated the stress I caused myself. I think as a PP said, I had an absolute mental block about arriving anywhere early as it seemed like such a waste of time. However in the last year or so I have retrained my brain to see that arriving somewhere early (without stress!) is actually a great use of time. I can relax, read my emails, catch up on social media, get a coffee etc. Its me time 😉
I now always factor in plenty of extra time and aim to arrive at least 20 minutes early. Maybe start thinking of the extra time you will get as a bit of a treat?

I don't think people are talking about the small number of people with what sounds like debilitating conditions which mean they can't hold down a job or risk setting fire to their homes. Those people would I hope have suitable accommodations made for them.

What's the solution, then, @Jimmyneutronsforehead ? If there can't be adaptation, strategies, development of those kinds of skills, what can be done?

I am very punctual. If I have an appointment, I get everything ready like bag, coat keys, charger etc way beforehand and leave at front door. Then I go back to work or whatever, and set an alarm for the time I need to leave at. I just stand up and leave then as everything is ready.

Maybe nothing, sometimes it just is what it is.

I'm an extremely punctual person (despite my ADHD but I also have autistic traits that I suspect balance it out) but in the grand scheme of things I can see that objectively it doesn't really matter.

Maybe part of you enjoys the ‘thrill’ of cutting things fine! If there was a train at 12 which I could not miss, and parking issues, I would be leaving at 11.30 at the very latest. Even then I’d be fretting about unexpected delays etc.

I think I’d be like that even if the parking at my local station hadn’t been slashed due to the beautification of the forecourt (it’s a bloody station!) and all the roads which lead to it weren’t under the dictatorial governance of 3 way temporary traffic lights (for months) due to pavement widening. (Hint to council: Station Approach will never look like the Champs-Élysées, no matter how much money you throw at it.)
Sorry for the rant!

Well, it matters when it impacts others.

no neither do I. I am not ND but I do have certain acrtivities that consume me to the point where I can lose time. My solution is simple and no it won't work for everyone. I set an alarm and have one rule which is when the alrm rings stop what you are doing and do something else. It might be something I need to do like checl the oven or it maybe just a change of activity. What it has done is train my brain not to disregard the alarm and makes the change of activity easier.

I can't say that others being late (and I have a LOT of late people in my life) has truly impacted me other than it being irritating.

Generally if I know someone is likely to be late and it is important they are on time I tell them an earlier time than it really is.

Firstly, you need to get yourself into the mindset that ‘if you’re on time, you’re late’.

Mistake 1:
Your first mistake was getting the 12pm train which would get you in on time for your very important meeting. If I had an extremely important meeting/job interview/appointment to attend, I would get (at the minimum) the bus/or train BEFORE the bus or train that got me in just on time. I would assume that there is a reasonable possibility that the bus or train could be cancelled or delayed. By getting in an earlier one than needed, I have accounted for this possibility. The benefit of making my crucial meeting/appointment outweighs the cost of having to hang around for a bit by getting to my destination slightly earlier.

Mistake 2:
If your train departed at 12.00pm and it takes an average of 10 minutes to drive there and 5 minutes to park, by leaving your house at 11.45, you are leaving it way too late! You don’t want to be strolling into the train station at 12pm when that’s the time the train departs! You should aim to be ON the platform at 11.50 at the latest. Don’t you want a good seat? Don’t you want to be in the right carriage? Do you want to have to run for closing doors and be sweaty? Don’t you want to make sure you have the right ticket and are on the right bit of the platform? If it takes an average of 10 minutes to drive there, you have to plan for 20 minutes due to unplanned traffic or unforeseen circumstances. Why assume you will find a perfect available parking space easily? You want to double or triple the 5 minutes to park. I would have left the house 11.20-11.30ish minimum to make that train. As a PP said, it’s bizarre how you look at your watch at 11.45 as you’re leaving and think “I’m bang on time”. The average person would be thinking at this point “I have 99% missed my train”.

You are not leaving yourself any buffer or contingency time at all for sub-optimal or unforeseen circumstances. This is something punctual people instinctively do. It takes an average of 20 minutes to drive from my boyfriends mothers house to ours However, she once did this drive in 8 minutes at 1am when there was no other cars/traffic on the street and made every green light. In her head, she now thinks this drive always takes 8 minutes despite the usual circumstances being nowhere near that. People who are chronically late are over-optimistic and think that travel or doing time always takes the quickest it has ever happened in instead of a cautious/conservative estimate or even an average estimate.

Mistake 3:
You didn’t stick to your plan you set yourself to combat your lateness habit. Your alarm you set to start getting ready went off at 11am. Why continue working at this point or give yourself extra non-urgent tasks to do during your get ready time (loading the dishwasher) when you KNOW you’re not good at perceiving the passing of time and are always late?

Here are some things that punctual people frequently do:

1) Build in contingency/buffer time to do things or get places. I know I like to daydream and leisurely scroll through my phone as I get ready so build this time into my get-ready time. If it takes me 10 minutes to walk to my hair salon from my house, I’ll give myself 20 minutes just in case the walk takes longe/ in case I'm
dawdling and also so I’m not strolling in just as my appointment starts. I want to relax a bit before. The more urgent the thing you are attending is, the more buffer time you need to put in.

2) Account for weather conditions. If it is raining or icy outside, you have to account for way more driving/travel time and time to defrost the car if needed. If it’s boiling hot, I might plan for more time to walk somewhere so I can go at a slower pace and not be hot and sweaty.

3) Amend your routine in real-time if something changes, not rigidly stick to it. It takes me exactly 60 minutes to shower, change, straighten my hair and have breakfast every morning before I leave the house for work. The other day, I spilt something on my dress and it took me 10 minutes to pick out a new outfit and change. I therefore had to cut 10 minutes from something else in my daily routine to ensure I left the house on time as usual. I didn’t do my 10-minute hair straighten. I tied it back. I left on time.

4) Plan in advance. Before I go to bed each night, I check my doors are locked, all appliances are off and everything is ready to go for the next day. This takes 90 seconds. I know where my keys and shoes are, my coat is on its peg, my umbrella and handbag and water bottle are by the door and my lunch is prepared in the fridge. This reduces cognitive load the next day and ensures I don’t waste any time looking for things. The more urgent the appointment, the more I plan in advance. You don’t want to be looking for your passport with two minutes to go before you have to leave for a flight! Likewise, check bus times and train times for the the following day and work backwards from there.

5) Make conservative/cautious estimates instead of liberal/optimistic ones. If it takes me an average of 30 minutes to curl my hair, I’ll budget around 35-40 for this task. Just because one day all the stars aligned and every curl fell into place the first time and it got done in 20 minutes does not mean this is the standard. Just because one day you found a perfect parking space just by the station in two minutes and jumped through a no-queue barrier and got on the nearest carriage to the barrier instantly all within 5 minutes does not mean it is usual. Assume finding a spot will be a struggle, assume there will be queues, assume once you get in the car, you’ll have to go back inside for a minutes and check you left enough water for your dog. Plan for extra time for circumstances out of your control.

Good luck OP!

Sometimes, nothing. Not every problem has a solution.

There's a lack of neurodivergent affirming therapies, there's a lack of support for people with executive dysfunction. Often, regardless of support aids, or in the absence of a support person, things just go wrong.

Public tolerance for these hidden disabilities would be a great start though, and maybe acknowledging that even though things have gone wrong, these things can't always be change or forseen and that the individual who has these issues is doing the best that they can.

I get and accept all of that but what is your solution? Constantly be late for work? miss trains and planes? drive your friends and families to distraction?

That's the price you pay to make sure you don't miss a train!