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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to honestley wonder, why have children if you WANT to work fulltime and are not prepared to make ANY sacrifices?

1007 replies

milkgoddessmakesthefinestmilk · 17/04/2008 15:48

i don't mean parents that HAVE to work to provide.

i mean the ones that choose to for no other reason, other than they enjoy their job so much.
if you enjoy your job so much, thats great.
but what i really do not understand is why have children?
no one makes any of these parents have children, you can go though life without having children.

this is 100% genuine question, i just do not get it.

OP posts:
PosieParker · 19/04/2008 09:45

Iasked for their advice, explaining that I didn't need my children to go and they advised against it. I took no motive from that, just that at 4,5 and 6 9-5 was a very long day.

edam · 19/04/2008 09:47

It seems you misunderstood what after-school club is about and didn't need to use it so teachers said 'don't'. No surprise there - doesn't mean after-school club is A Bad Thing, just that it's not an extra curricular activity, it's childcare.

PosieParker · 19/04/2008 09:48

glucose, curious? But I'll take that forgiveness and raise you a little understanding

FairyMum · 19/04/2008 09:48

"fairymum, what I get from your post is that you'd like posie to be jealous of you!

you don't sound so happy with your own choice if you don't mind me saying"

Nope, just trying to understand why she is so obsessed in prooving that children of wohms are less this or less that. And what she is saying about after-school clubs are so clearly crap unless the after-school at her particular school is a terrible thing of course.

I am happy with my own choices. My children spend time with their dad 3 hours in the mornings and with me 3-4 hours in the evening so I don't fit into the "never seeing my children"-category and I believe most wohms don't. The obsessed sahms just like quoting extreme examples which makes for tedious debate really.

PosieParker · 19/04/2008 09:49

Yes, I had thought it was more about learning for learning's sake as opposed to activities to fill a time slot.

moreJellothanJlo · 19/04/2008 09:51

agree posie it must be a long day

kids will probably get used to it, but still doesn't make it much fun for them

PosieParker · 19/04/2008 09:53

Fairymum, my main gripe is not with the likes of you and your family or anyone really for that matter. But one poster who is the extreme slammed all SAHPs and I felt the need to defend. I appreciate the evidence that supports both camps and I have chosen to run the risk of my children having warped views of women, I suppose, but counter this with being creative and keeping my adult brain learning and growing and hopefully making a little cash. I'm sure when you decided to work it wasn't without a thought as to whether this was the right thing for your family, but work seemed the best option for you. If you love/need your work then it's a good enough reason, but in any choice there are consequences.

moreJellothanJlo · 19/04/2008 09:53

fairy if you are happy with your choice why keep going on about it? sounds like you are wanting to convince yourself rather than let all of us know what your day is like

Judy1234 · 19/04/2008 09:58

Accomplishment? I thought in today's consumerist society your role models were the WAGs who lie on their backs, give sex, have their hair done, look good and marry a rich man. Surely the woman who gets the rich man and never works again is the accomplishment of 2008? I think that's morally wrong - becoming a housewife etc but it's the prevailing ethos, consistent with Martha Stewart woman at home, happy little home maker, not sullying her pretty little head with wanting to run a hedge fund because after all women aren't clever enough or ambitious enough to be surgeons or chair Tesco or run the country. Or so people will think if women keep wimping out and giving up work to mind children and keep the house clean.

I shall have to found the Feminist Republic of Xenia on my island unless women start doing a bit better.

On the topic of after school club depends, doesn't it? The one at the private school the tiwns sometimes used is run by a lovely older lady, they did supervised homework, ate, played. Lovely arrangement. There were teacher couples using it for before and after school care so they could continue their careers as teachers etc. I don't really see the children as damaged. Some stay at home parents aren't much good anyway and I doubt their children are better home by 3.30 watching TV. I actually preferred the days they got home all homework done in the club as our time in the evening was more chatting than getting homework done so that is another advantage of some of these clubs at some schools. School day length as an impact too. My twins finish at 4. They're 9. Some state schools have much older children finishing just after 3. Are they damaged the private school children by having that extra hour of learning or advantaged by it?

Someone asked me above in effect about amount of time two working parents send with say under 3s when both work. Depends on the couple, doesn't it? Our nanny left at 6. Usually my husband got back first as his school day ended at 5.45pm unless he had something on after school. I was home by 6.30 most days. We had sleepless babies sadly so God knows how many hours with them before morning. But lots of lovely special time breastfeeding in the dark and warm. Then holidays? The nanny had 4 weeks off a year. She never came on holiday with us. I would have got that too plus bank holidays in those days. Their father was around as a teacher but you can't tread on the nanny's toes but they could break up the children one have one the other have the others and he idd work in school holidays -teacher pay is so poor many have to. When they were older we had different child care arrangements. Lots of children remember fondly their holidays with both parents and although I think you need consistent love and cuddles as a small child from the same people I don't think f it's 4 hours a day rather than 16 or something that is going to damage you irretrievably for life and indeed as seen above it can benefit you.

What always surprises me is some stay at home mothers think they are God's gift to parenthood that no one on this whole planet except possibly their husband is going to be able to look after that child properly. It's a kind of ego complex they get. I feel they need more humility almost, to believe I am not the best, that the nanny, my husband, my mother, teachers at school may all be even better than I am so let's give this child a chance to be exposed to these other people. As long as you avoid different carer every few months, as soon as child builds bond the father leaves or latest lover leaves or nanny goes, then the children will be fine. Even if you do have change at nursery or with lovers or with nannies or the beloved granny dies as long as there remans consistency of care with some adults, mother or father, children are fine too.

FairyMum · 19/04/2008 09:58

Actually in our after-school club the children can CHOOSE to get help with their homework or choose activities such as arts and crafts, storytime and various sports activities (not all on the same day. They have a timetable). They also have a play corner where the children can just play or chill out. My DD loves the organised activities, while my DS1 prefers to just chill out. I pick them up at 4:30 only an hour later than they finish school anyway. Most children are picked up before 5. Most wohms and our school use the after-school clubs because its impossible to make it to the school gates in time. It doesn't mean that they necessarily work really long hours. Again, I think its always discussed as parents who leave their children all day, while the truth is that after-school should be there to offer flexibility for parents who need it.

I think many sahms are against after-school clubs because they are worried it would make it easier for them to go out to work

policywonk · 19/04/2008 10:00

I don't believe that I am a better carer because of my intrinsic talents; I believe that I am a better carer because no-one loves my children as much as I, my partner and their grandparents, and I think that love is the most important thing in the day-to-day care of a child. As I said below, if you can find paid childcare that involves love, then good on you.

FairyMum · 19/04/2008 10:03

"fairy if you are happy with your choice why keep going on about it? sounds like you are wanting to convince yourself rather than let all of us know what your day is like"

Oh dear, you are unsuccessfully trying to be clever I think. Its a discussion thread. I am responding to what some sahms are saying about children of wohms. I have not said anything about children of sahms. I think my children would be just as happy if I stayed at home (in fact I am at home on mat leave at the moment).

policywonk · 19/04/2008 10:03

And Xenia, you have completely (and I guess deliberately) avoided riven's point about the true meaning of accomplishment.

moreJellothanJlo · 19/04/2008 10:05

fairymum,

Oh dear, you are successfully trying to be patronising

hercules1 · 19/04/2008 10:07

I know that my daughter gets a far more stimulating, active and fun day at her nursery surrounded by a few adults who she has an attachment to and she believes they have an attachment to her than she would at home with me.
They dont have to actually love her but what is important is that there is an emotional attachment where she feels they do.
It also means that during our time together I dont feel I have to be all singing and dancing with her doing all sorts of activities as she gets all the activities at nursery. I felt the same with ds - it was great not having to have a sandpit at home as he had one at nursery.

PosieParker · 19/04/2008 10:09

I have one baby at home and another one the way....what is work?!! My children are not allowed to watch TV during the week and after school twice a week wee walk accross the downs, in Bristol and three times we come home and do creative stuff.
Again Xenia you are devaluing SAHP fro your own ends, talking extremes. Would it be so hard to see that there is middle ground and having an equal society whatever role you undertake is worthy of respect. It just so happens that when I was first working I happened to fall in love with my boss, he had been at the company longer than me and so was much higher up the ladder and so when we decided to have children his salary had more digits than mine. Does this mean I am a failure? Or a wimp? No it means I am brave enough to believe that my children are worth my time. It's people like you that keep women down, that make that career break so impossible, for some, that sneer at people who don't have hired help. Perhaps you should dismount from your high horse and think about people who have had the life of privalege that you seem to have and that some have not worked themselves to a position where they have your choices.

hercules1 · 19/04/2008 10:09

Xenia - I appreciate that as a teacher I earn far less than you but I still earn way over the national average, enough to pay for full time montessori fees, pay a huge London mortgage and foods, bills etc on my own (nothing to spare though).
Maybe that's because I do earn more than a lot of teachers as I have a senior position but it does niggle me when you paint teachers as all being poor.

moreJellothanJlo · 19/04/2008 10:10

hercules, whats up with having a sandpit at home?
I don't get that bit, or do you not have access to a garden?

FairyMum · 19/04/2008 10:10

moreJellothanJlo, do you have any thing interesting to say?

hercules1 · 19/04/2008 10:11

It's the sand they bring in the house with me. I hate it!

Mind you I now have 3 dogs and they bring in far more than sand with them into the house so I guess that arguments lost now!

PosieParker · 19/04/2008 10:11

However it's pointless me being a SAHM and at the weekend spending my Saturday morning on MN!!!

PosieParker · 19/04/2008 10:12

H, I bow down to your Montessori choice, in Bristol there are none

hercules1 · 19/04/2008 10:13

Yes, it is really good

moreJellothanJlo · 19/04/2008 10:15

wow, 3 dogs, can only imagine the mess they make!

and fairymum, lighten up love

FairyMum · 19/04/2008 10:16

PosieParker , LOL at your post.

First:"Would it be so hard to see that there is middle ground and having an equal society whatever role you undertake is worthy of respect."

and then:"No it means I am brave enough to believe that my children are worth my time."

Apart from this I agree with a lot of what you are saying in your last post. You do talk a lot of sense in your post, but I would like to edit out the nonsense

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