DH not coming home when planned....

[Doublebubblegum]

Please tell me if I'm being unreasonable. My DH thinks I am...

DH took the kids to watch a local sports event today. Lots of mutual friends and kids attending this event, but I didn't go as had a few other bits to do in the house etc.

Plan was for me to pick DH and kids up at around 6ish - got there at 6, DH and his pal had just ordered a beer at the bar (family friendly sports bar type place). DH wanted to watch the football on TV so I offered to take the kids back home and he said he'd come home after the football game.

Our DD (she's 10) has been pretty anxious recently and was a bit upset DH wasn't coming back with us. He said he'd watch the football and then be home straight after. He told her he would be home in an hour.

I get home with kids, sort dinner, etc. All fine. I'm happy to do this as don't begrudge DH being out. Doesn't bother me at all.

An hour's goes by, DH not home. DD asks where he is, she's quite fixated on the 'ill be home in an hour' point. I explain that sometimes time goes faster than you think when you're with your friends etc etc. two hours go by, still no sign of DH. I text him, he says he's moved on to a nearby pub but will be home soon. I explain to DD that he'll be back soon and we snuggle up on sofa and watch some netflix together. All ok but DD a bit teary and asking why dad isn't home when he says he will be etc.

Three hours 'late', DH gets home. DD teary and happy to see him. She asked why he didn't come back when he said he would. He said that an hour doesn't mean an hour necessarily and that he was just having a nice time with his friends. She was fine eventually and went to bed, all settled etc.

I've just explained to DH that by promising DD to be back at a certain time but not keeping to it, he's modelling behaviour that she will think is normal. She'll think it's ok for someone to say they'll do something, but then they don't. And maybe next time instead of saying a time he'll be back, not to do this as it's not great for DD.

He thinks I'm saying this because I was annoyed he wasn't back (not true at all, as I said I've no issue with this) and has said it is ridiculous that I am asking him to check in with DD when he's out. I said this isn't what I'm saying, but if he tells DD he will be back at a certain time, given her anxiety it's not a great situation to be late back.

He's so pissed off with me I'm wondering if I've over reacted. Sorry - long and possibly confusing - but have I been unreasonable?

But OP seems to be saying she understood that he wasn’t being literal and he wouldn’t just be an hour. So it wasn’t a lack of courtesy with her.

See I don’t understand this thinking.

When dd is teen and coming back at a certain time, she won’t be an adult.

Teens are perfectly capable of understanding their parents can do some things that they can’t. When she is an adult, so what if she is late back?

By the time my Dd was an adult, if she was later home than planned I would have sent a text making sure she was ok, and that’s it. I am far from a laid back parent, but I get that plans change. If she is out on a night out with friends, I can totally understand time getting away from someone.

and as the child was already getting anxious at the thought of the her Dad staying out at all, being vague about when he would be back might have made things worse.

As an aside, it Op feels he should have texted her and let her know (which I would agree with) then that’s what she should have said. That she would appreciate a text if he is going to be late home.

Whereas I agree with not pandering to the anxiety you can also choose how to handle to carefully - if saying an hour and then not returning is a trigger which could set the DD back why do it when there are others way which could have avoided it but still had the same outcome

Both DH and I have stayed out later than initially planned because we were having a good time. We aren’t lazy or unreliable parents - we are parents who also have lives outside of our family responsibilities.

I think the easiest way to deal with this would be to tell DD at the first opportunity that Dad is out having fun and he might not be home for a while. Anxiety cannot be dealt with by trying to control the environment to avoid triggers. She needs to learn to deal with the normal uncertainties of life.

Only you know your role in this OP and whether you are unconsciously letting DD know that it would make you happy if DH didn’t go out with friends. A friend of mine was called into school because her child was bullying other students and counselling was suggested. My friend seemed quite pleased to inform us that her DD had told the counsellor she was upset because her dad was spending too much time at work. And suddenly she was off the hook, mummy was giving her lots of attention and dad was the villain. Oh and 20 years later she’s still having friendship issues due to her behaviour.

I was a very anxious child and it made my life very difficult well into my teens.
I think you need to acknowledge that anxiety and make it ok.
"I know you're worried about daddy but he's with his friend having fun and we’re ok here so let’s let him come back when he’s ready.”
That way you’re not discounting how she feels but you’re making it ok.

Because it is perfectly ok for him to do that.
Acknowledge and change the subject.

If you’re discounting the anxiety that’s not helpful, nor is exacerbating it but just calmly saying it’s ok to be anxious and then moving on from that is better.

The thing is, one person with anxiety can end up controlling the whole household. DD was worried about him staying at the pub from the outset; it wasn’t just the time/coming home later.

People can’t live their life so as not to upset an anxious person; it’s like OCD - satisfying their conditions doesn’t work, they just add more.

YANBU if her anxiety is about being apart from you or her DD and he then promises her something he doesn't stick to. That is poor parenting and you are right to raise it with him. He's being an AH.

Maybe he needs to speak to her counsellor...

Thanks for all the comments and thoughts.

I'm trying to get professional help for my daughter, but we are up against waiting lists and it's hard to access the sort of help she very much needs.

All the suggestions around how I should have handled this with DD - that is what I was doing. Or trying to do. I downplayed everything, explained that dad will be home when he's home, etc. I wasn't sitting there escalating her anxieties. I do what I always do - listen, talk through, and then try to sort of distract with something else.

My husband and I both have social lives. He's out regularly but if he goes out (or if I go out) and DD knows we will be back after bedtime (for example) then this sort of anxiety isn't there.

I really genuinely don't mind DH being out. There's no issue with going out, no issue (from my point of view) when you're out and then fancy staying out a bit longer. It's just the fact he told DD he'd be an hour. If he hadn't said that to her, there'd be no issue at all. But she's anxious and upset and asking me why dad would say this when it's not true. I'm obviously explaining to her but it's put her in a state of anxiety that she simply wouldn't have been in, if he hadn't said it.

Absolutely this. He shouldn't have to check in what her or whatever, he's an adult. You should have reassured her if the anxiety is so bad.

I would feel stifled. Hope she gets help that works.

But the DH shouldn't have said an hour if he didn't mean it.

My DD is recovering from anxiety. It us extremely important she can trust what we say. So we don't make promises (explicit or implied) we can't keep.

The DH could have said 'I don't know how long I'll be', but he said 'an hour'.

It isn't fair on the DD or her mum.

Life happens. Spontaneously, sometimes. The child was safe with her mother.

As a matter of interest, do you have a child with a diagnosed anxiety disorder?

No. But as I said, I feel the mother could have reassured her that dad is having fun and will be home soon. I hope she gets help. It must be very difficult for everyone, including the parents.

And he probably will not be specific in the future. I wouldn't be.

I have an anxious nine year old with the same worries. The difference is, she lost her dad very young so her anxiety is powered by past events.

I wouldn't pander to this. Part of managing anxiety is understanding it can't be used to control others. Your DH is an adult and is allowed to change his plans. Your daughter needs to learn to manage this as part of her recovery.

Huge sympathies OP.. anxious children are very hard work.

Poor time keeping is very irritating to me so I’d be with your DD. I do think it sets a bad example. It’s okay to overrun but communication is important to me.

Both Dh and I value our time over everything else.

edit - I have an ASD highly anxious dd

But you said she became upset as soon as he said he was staying out and not coming home with you

Yes she did. And then after DH said he'd be an hour, that sort of appeased her and she was ok.

You were there when he said an hour. And you know that in such a social setting, an hour doesn't mean 'exactly 60 minutes from now' so if DD's anxiety is such that words have to be policed so carefully, you could have intervened at that point and said something that softened the timing prediction. But just as DH didn't see the potential issue, neither did you. You and DH can't always be 'on' it and neither of you did anything wrong.

The only thing that could have been better is if DH had texted to say he'd be later. But again, it's not a sin. On the scale of MN unreasonableness, it's not remotely up there. You knew where he was and you handled your DD well.

Don't let your DD's anxiety cause more stress to the rest of you than it needs to. She had to manage a situation, it turned out okay, her dad was fine (so an example for her of a positive outcome) so don't add a layer of stress to the household by being angry with him.

So if he hadn't said a time, because actually he didn't really know when he would get back, she wouldn't have been appeased and would've continued to be upset.

He's between a rock and a hard place, he says I don't know when I'll get home she's upset, he says about an hour she's ok in the moment but then upset when he doesn't meet his 'curfew'. He and you, need to have some flexibility in your lives. She'd been with him all day and she was going home with you.

Is there an option to seek private support for her if waiting lists for camhs are long? Appeasement will reinforce her beliefs in the long term

Honestly im with your dh here. Back in an hour doesnt mean that surely? It just means back after a couple of drinks. He was out with friends. Wouldnt bother me in the slightest although being with a cranky child would so it would make me a little bit annoyed

Your daughters' reaction is out of proportion. Shes fixated on a time very literally. Is it anxiety or autism? She needs help with this

Just agree with your DH to always tell her you'll only be home once she's in bed. Anything before will always be a bonus. You need to manage her anxiety not his time out of the house.

So at that point saying ‘I don’t know how long I will be’ wouldn’t have helped?

Adults shouldn’t need to appease her because they are staying out. But clearly you both try. And you can’t always know how long you will be.

He said an hour to deal with her anxiety there and then but you think he should have said he would be back after she goes to bed. Would that have appeased her at the time? It’s which case it’s not about ‘modelling behaviour’ or sticking to what he told her, is it? It’s about him simply telling her he doesn’t know how long he will be? Rather than saying what deals with her anxiety in the moment. But instead of saying ‘it’s easier all round if you say you will be out until after she is in bed’ you told it’s about sticking to his word and modelling behaviour. Which is an entirely discussion. It goes from ‘dds anxiety is easier to deal with if we do xyz’ to ‘you are being a bad parent’

The answer to ‘why did he say an hour if he is going to be longer’ is simply ‘plans change sometimes’. Again, he doesn’t need to be back exactly when he says, she needs to get comfortable with plans changing. She can understand that sometimes people have plans. Sometimes those plans need sticking to for various reasons. But sometimes people can just go with flow and plans can change and that’s ok.

He’s an adult and a 10 year old cannot dictate his schedule. He hasn’t done anything wrong in my view. I get she’s anxious but she doesn’t therefore run the family. You say she’s anxious about being apart from you or DH but she was with you. Sorry but he has done absolutely nothing wrong.

This. And how would it have been dealt with if he had as pp have suggested stayed in contact with updates of exactly how long he'd be, or had just said 'I'll be back later, you'll probably be in bed' and she'd responded with 'no you must come home NOW, you can't stay out any later? @Doublebubblegum ?