Huge row with DH over food safety - who is BU?

[namechange294824]

NC'ed on the off chance this is outing!

DH and I are both 34. We've been in the process of moving house over the past 2 months, and are finally in a position to have guests in the house (i.e. we have a dining table and chairs). Moving hasn't been without its challenges and there have been some really stressful bits, but on the whole it's been fairly straightforward, and we don't have kids.

Invited DH's parents (mid/late 60s) to dinner on Tuesday night. I offered to cook. I prepared a starter, a main, and a dessert on Monday night, ready to go in the fridge for ease of serving quickly on Tuesday (I was going to be getting in from work only 20 mins or so before they arrived so it made sense to pre-prepare.) I spent 3.5 hours cooking/baking on Monday, which wiped out my entire post-work evening. No drama; I'd offered to do it, and I enjoy cooking.

But throughout this 3.5 hours DH could not help himself from repeatedly putting his head round the door and being critical - why hadn't I done X? Was I going to bother putting Y in the bin or is it going to be left on the side forever? So on, so forth. I asked him to stop, and he didn't. He probably whinged at me 5 times about separate trivial things whilst I was cooking.

The main dish needed a long while in the oven. It was 9.15pm at this point and he had totally exhausted me with his bitching and griping. I told him I just wanted to shower and go to bed and asked him to take the food out of the oven once the timer went off, which would have been at 10pm.

He did that. But he then failed to put it in the fridge, leaving it out overnight on the countertop. He was watching telly until about midnight, well after the point it would have cooled enough to go in the fridge.

I was so furious in the morning that after a night of whinging and sniping at me he'd not even had the thought to properly put away the food I'd spent so long cooking.

His position: the food's fine, it had foil on it anyway, just crack on and serve it tonight

My position: it's a meat dish (with pork in) and I don't feel comfortable serving it to his parents who are in their 60s after it's been left out overnight in the middle of August

He cancelled the dinner plans, and told his mum it was because we'd had an argument (which we had, I guess, but now I feel really humiliated and almost ashamed that their evening was spoiled because of us).

So... who is BU?

But he was definitely a dick!

If it was covered in the oven, and the food wasn’t uncovered or touched after being removed from the oven, then it should be ok.

Otherwise, Staph aureus, either airborne or from handling, would be the most likely candidate

I leave food out overnight all the time, it's not exactly hot weather. Never get ill. You both sound like massive drama queens though, what a mad way to live.

The meat was fine, it just needed popping in the fridge in the morning. It needed to cool down completely before going in the fridge, which wouldn’t have been the case last night.

It was a high of 12°C last night in the Midlands, for those going on about summer temperatures.

American food safety standards have to be higher than U.K. because their food production standards are so low. That’s why they need to refrigerate eggs and we don’t, for example.

Okay well read some UK sites if you want to.
They will tell you the same...

Casseroles taken out of the oven (meat) should be chilled as soon as possible. This is to stop bacteria growing in warm conditions ( regardless of the temp in the room.) Cooking doesn't always kill all bacteria in food and it can grow again if left at a certain temp.

If it's reheated at a certain temp and you use a meat thermometer to test it, then it may be okay.

But it's a risk. Take it yourself if you want to but don't risk your guests.

Sounds like he didn't want his parents round. I would ring his parents, explain the situation and ask them round again. Nobody needs to be cooking all hours and I would totally resent doing so. I would do something very quick and easy brought ready prepared. It isn't about the food it is about you all being together.

Absolutely nothing. Pork was dodgy years ago because of the farming/processing methods of the time and it was linked with the risk of tapeworm if not cooked adequately. That doesn’t happen now but mud sticks.

Eggs in the US are refrigerated because the shells are washed prior to sale, which removes the protective bloom

If you object to a US site, is the lovely Delia acceptable?

https://www.deliaonline.com/how-to-cook/meat/the-principles-of-casserole-cookery#:~:text=The%20reheating%20must%20be%20done,take%2045%20minutes%20in%20all.

Many casseroles seem to improve in flavour if kept overnight (cool them quickly and keep them in a refrigerator, by the way, once they’re cold). This means it’s quite possible to make two casseroles while the oven is in full swing, and keep one for the next day.

The reheating must be done very thoroughly, though, either on top of the stove over a very low heat or in an oven heated to gas mark 3, 325°F (170°C). Either way, the food must come up to a gentle simmer and maintain that temperature for 30 minutes to kill off any harmful bacteria. So it will take 45 minutes in all.

I’m in my mid 60s (and a bit offended that apparently this is supposed to be relevant) and I would have eaten it happily.
im also old enough to remember a time when not everyone had fridges - we had several older neighbours who kept their meat in unrefrigerated meat safes. Nobody died.

The guidance is the same in the UK.

Really daft trying to prove otherwise as anything and everything on food hygiene says refrigerate quickly after cooking.

He sounds like a child

It's already been asked, but if you put a large hot ithing nto the fridge it will raise the fridge temperature, won't it? How can that be a good idea? I wait until my stew had cooled to no more than lukewarm, ideally to the point where you'd say it was cold. Then it goes in the fridge.

No good now, but in the OP's shoes, for a summer meal on a work night, I'd have made the starter and dessert in advance and planned a very simple quick main course, e.g. salmon fillets and vegetables or salad, which would cook quickly while the starter was being eaten.

Cooking raw meat kept in a cold place is not the same as reheating cooked meat the next day.

His parents, he invited them, he cooks. Nice of you to do it, but if you'd decided it was too risky to eat then he should certainly have cooked a replacement meal.

I'd have eaten it without concern after thoroughly reheating, not sure I'd be quite as comfortable serving it to an elderly guest though.

12C is out doors, it was 23C in our kitchen at bed time last night.

No way I would eat a pork dish left out as long as the OPs in the summer and I am not picky.

I once ate a kebab out of a bin.

I think it's you that needs to do that, given that you quoted and posted a US website, which is totally irrelevant to the UK

The FSA don't say anything about pork being more dangerous, in fact, it goes in the same category as chicken and other poultry.

It probably would have been ok but my appetite for it would have gone off.

He sounds extremely immature. The sniping during your cooking session and running to mummy to cancel would really put me off.

(The only food I have left out overnight is a large vat of tomato sauce for pasta, to cool before refrigerating; the high acid content from the tomatoes makes me feel ok about it. But only in cool weather.)

And UK sites will also tell you that the risk from putting it in the fridge before it’s completely cooled is potentially worse - raising the fridge temperature and turning everything in it off. Taken out of the oven at 10pm it wouldn’t be cool enough to refrigerate for a good few hours, so next morning would have been fine. If the meat is cooked right through first time, covered while cooling and thoroughly reheated there’s little risk. Lot of nonsense over nothing. No wonder there’s so much waste.

I know, because their poultry keeping hygiene is so low in comparison to ours. We don’t wash eggs because ours aren’t contaminated with chicken shit in poultry production.

Meat and egg and over food production in the USA is substandard, pumped full of chemicals and well dodgy in comparison to European standards.

As a result, their food must be handled differently to stay food safe in the home, hence a PP US food advice being irrelevant.

He’s unreasonable. Both for leaving the food out to spoil (I seriously hate that) but then cancelling the dinner and telling his parents you fell out?!

why couldn’t he just have apologised and bought something else 🤦‍♀️

So many things.

60s isn't elderly.

You cat pork pink these days, it doesn't have to be a piece of rubber.

Depends on the dish for me, curry, something spiced I would have put in the fridge in the morning. Something like pork fillet I wouldn't not so much because of food poisoning but because it would be like rubber after heating.

Don't volunteer to do the cooking again op.

Here's the FSA link.

https://www.food.gov.uk/safety-hygiene/cooking-your-food

There's nothing there about pork being more dangerous than any other meat - that used to be the case but hasn't been for a long while now. In fact, the last time it was a problem was in 1978.

https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2005/09/01/The-Surgery-Are-there-dangers-with-serving-pink-pork#:~:text=The%20reason%20people%20still%20think,the%20actual%20act%20of%20cooking.

Putting hot food in a fridge makes the temperature of the fridge go up, not down. As stated by a PP. If you have to put warm, not hot, food in a fridge. Put it on an empty top shelf, as heat rises. Never underneath other chilled food. In theory the thermostat with kick in before the temperate goes up too much.

Another PP asks - What ever did people do before fridges existed? They ate it straight away. Had cool larders or similar. Made religious rulings about not eating pork, and various other food rules, to reduce the risk to the general population. Cured/dried/smoked/salted meats and fish. They had parasites, painful digestive issues, frequent diarrhea and died younger. That or stronger immune systems and a gut biome that was different to those of modern times.

Heating through thoroughly doesn't always mean safe to eat. Bacteria is frequently not the problem. The heating may kill the bacteria but not the toxins those bacteria produced while active. To be a bit ridiculously anthropomorphic, germs have a party in your food at room temp. Shitting, pissing, throwing up and shagging as they go. Killing them doesn't clean up the mess.

Also, what's with the notion that everything left undone by a man is the woman's fault because, "you never said", when speaking of obvious actions. There's few women alive who've never heard that one. Women obviously need to provide a written step by step guide, with illustrations, because men are supposedly poor little uneducated children. One, they are not. Two, they would bloody ignore it anyway and claim you left your instructions where they couldn't see it.

I just checked the smart thermostat thing, it was 14° in the kitchen overnight here. But fair enough, people’s houses vary.