It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

[Housebuyingfamily]

Birth rates are on the floor which people frame as, people would have more kids were it not for the cost of them or climate change, etc etc. But I feel like it’s now more than this. As if we have a global child-free culture that’s growing every day and it’s becoming increasingly “unfashionable” to have kids, even looked down upon.

I think the option isn't as stigmatised as it used to be. Many women used to have kids because that was what you done. Now it is more a decision.
Also cost of living and many not being able to afford a house will not help

Unnatural to have kids lol really.
I didnt want kids im not awful or nasty to kids i have loads of them in my family.
I dont hate kids i just dont like them.
I wouldent want all that responsibility for a whole person either.
Plus i cant keep a plastic plant alive.

Why do you care if other people have kids or not?

Love how it didnt take long for this to turn into an attack on dog owners though

Quite a wide discussion now and some great posts, but you’ve really got what I was trying to get at!

If you follow the dominant sort of cultural narrative (and yes social media is a big part) then I agree, child free is becoming a default position, and people are actively criticising people with kids. It’s a thing.

There’s an AppleTV show (I think last year) with Idris Elba on a plane and a family get on with kids, and a young solo traveller has a pop at them for taking up too much luggage room. The mum and this girl then have a spat basically about the importance of having families vs being child free. A crap show but it was on point.

Unnatural in the sense that it goes against nature's endgame of "survival of the species". But it's not unusual for a species that is no longer born to just breed and then die.

It’s not unnatural to not want kids, I’ve never come across anyone having that mindset before? I have children but don’t think it’s the slightest bit odd.

Is this assumption of yours just for women or do you think it’s unnatural for men not to want children as well?

I am pro euthanasia, and i would feel the same. I just hope that its easy accessible and affordable should anyone wish to choose that option in future.

I think we should be more worried about the FATHERS who think these tasks are beneath them because you know what...............this actually affects the child!!!

. I feel like as a society we are quite obsessed with being parents,/ having children to prive our worth/ provide evidence of our capacity to love or something. Still tied up with religion and societal stability :

• in the workplace constantly sending endless photos of new babies, collections for babies etc. To point where people without can feel excluded
• open a magazine - women with children generally celebrated
• Olympics - how many mums did it - celebrated everywhere
• people regularly saying in public life ‘as a parent I am concerned about crime/ the environment’.- you don’t need children to think about these things
• having children often being considered as most difficult job you will ever do etc. I have a DC and find that ridiculous. Is being a parent harder than being a heart surgeon, no it is isn’t. And tbh I can think of a lot of jobs nothing like a surgeon it’s no not harder that but it is generally assigned this higher level meaning

I haven't noticed that. Round our way - fairly "fashionable" area - everyone has at least one kid as soon as they can. More often two of three.

So much so, childcare is a nightmare - all nurseries are full, and getting a space is like winning a lottery.

I don't agree with your reasoning. Most people nowadays have two working parents and cant afford multiple children, not to mention the logistical difficulties of multiples for those without family closeby.

I'd much rather have a dog than a child in this climate. Poor schooling which is always underfunded, Underfunded NHS, childcare bleeds you dry and I'd have to give up my career and live on one wage and depend on my partner which to me, makes me squirm.

Also to note, children run the schools, children run their parents and I find children incredibly bratty and spoilt these days. Many of our friends have children and they all speak to their parents like utter shite or have horrendous manners and expect/want everything NOW. Yes, this is partly down to parenting but IMO, I'd rather not bring children into this world as it is now. This is the reason we have chosen not to have children, the world has gone too soft and too expensive.

We’d have 3/4 if finances allow. Probably have to stop at 2. Fuck fashionable!

Some people spend their 'childbearing' years parenting their own useless parents and/or traumatised by their own childhood. Unfortunately fitness to be in charge of the happiness and welfare of a child isn't a prerequisite to parenthood.

Are you for real?

I'm the first of my close friends to have kids (I'm 35!!). None of them want them. They're worried about their careers, money and the toll it takes on them as women. These are all professional women with demanding careers they love.

Two friends in particular have husbands who would like them but my friends said they don't want to get stuck doing all the hard work, ruin their bodies and careers, and they know their husbands are a bit lame.

Personally I would leave the lame husband to find a good man to make a baby with but I guess it depends on how much you want them.

@HuckleberryBlackcurrant I actually think this view is quite widespread. If we could just value having children /not having children more equally we’d all be better off

I've definitely noticed this among the higher earners I know.

Are you in the London/NYC OP as then I would have to agree with you, elsewhere not so much.

Disclaimer haven’t rtft

I'm not sure about "fashionable" or "unfashionable", but it's a similar story the world over. If you give women access to reliable contraception/abortion services and educational/economic opportunities which mean that marriage and motherhood are not their only options, it turns out that most women want either 0, 1 or 2 children and very few want more than 2.

And if you really fuck women off, either through reproductive repression and coercion like China or through a deeply misogynistic culture combined with an insane working hours ethos like Japan, no appeal to "your national duty" or "take one for the team" is going to get women voluntarily to have more kids just because the country is facing demographic crisis or oblivion.

It's only a few generations since there's been reliable contraception and women have had the option to have children or not.
Plus of course increasing education, access to work, lessening of stigma if one doesn't choose marriage and children, and financial independence, at least in some countries.

So rather than a "fashion", instead those who never wanted children are now increasingly not forced into a path that they didn't want. It'll probably stabilise at some point, with a percentage of women not wanting children and a majority wanting them.

Additionally, it's pretty well documented that both make and female fertility has been falling, so that will have some impact.

And yes, finances, ecology and the state of the world are a factor for some, as are involuntary childlessness, and not finding a suitable partner.

But of all the things which are susceptible to "fashion", I don't think having children is one of them, in terms of the biological urges.

The one place I might give it some degree of credence is in China, where after decades of the one child policy, they're having great difficulty in raising the birth rate again, due to people no longer having the experience of siblings, it not being something they see in society around them, and having been indoctrinated into a materialistic culture, so that the financial impact of having multiple children is seen as undesirable by many.

London indeed. Maybe it’s a city thing mainly, I don’t know

That’s not society being ‘geared towards’ being a parent. That’s just people acknowledging and celebrating the arrival of babies or the challenge of being an athlete with a young family.

There are a million and one other similar examples not involving children - collections at work for charity dos, wedding presents, leaving presents etc. Magazines celebrating people overcoming any kind of hardship.

As for the idea raising children is hard… well, I mean it is harder than not having them isn’t it. Most parents are working full time and raising their kids meaning little time for themselves - that is hard!

If our society was geared towards parents we would have better paid parental leave, free childcare, tax breaks to help parents stay home, more investment in maternity services, more investment in schools etc. I think most people are trying to raise their kids in an environment that largely ignores the modern challenges of parenting!

So lets do a poll @Comedycook Would you and other parents on here be encouraging your children to work as care workers in care homes???!!! Or is that for other peoples children to do

I guess there isn't a lot of choice out there. There are so many lame men around who really don't deserve to be fathers.