It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

[Housebuyingfamily]

Birth rates are on the floor which people frame as, people would have more kids were it not for the cost of them or climate change, etc etc. But I feel like it’s now more than this. As if we have a global child-free culture that’s growing every day and it’s becoming increasingly “unfashionable” to have kids, even looked down upon.

I agree completely. I’ve long since maintained that those who chide you for not having children do so for four main reasons:

1. Parenting has been the most amazing experience and they genuinely think you’re missing out. Doubly so if they were ambivalent about having children before they did and found that - for them - it’s the best thing they ever did.

2. They think it’s just “what you do” and you’re making a fuss. Just get on with it and conform, would you?

3. They regret having children and don’t see why you should dodge the bullet. If they had to suffer then so do you.

4. FOMO. They want everyone around them to have the same life so they don’t ever have to feel like they’ve missed out on anything.

I’ve experienced all of those and they are all bloody irritating.

It wouldn’t but it meant they could just think of themselves if they wished. No guilt. Just doing exactly as they pleased.

But is that not also what we did when we decided to have children? We weren't forced to have children. We weren't thinking about the planet or the future we're bringing children into. We did it because it was something that pleased us.

Having children is no more selfish or selfless than not having them.

Deciding to have children and having/parenting children are very different things. Deciding to have a child is certainly selfish, as I agree you are doing it because you want to. But raising kids has been incredibly selfless so far. I’m a bloody slave to then!!!!!

I don’t see why you have gendered it - my comment was gender neutral.

I don’t know why you find it surprising that the same logic is not applied the other way - those who do not want children are far smaller in number than those who do.

You aren't any less selfish because you are raising children you chose to have for selfish reasons though. That's just what you do when you commit to something. You haven't suddenly become a different or better person any more than a childfree person who also commits to something long-term. Childfree people still have responsibilities in life.

Please learn to read.

Thank you.

I don't understand how raising kids is selfless when the vast majority of people choose to be parents for selfish reasons?

Continuously producing children to have enough “working age adults” seems like a massive pyramid scheme. We need to reassess how we do things in society as we cannot force people to have children.

I was referring to in-person support.

Having kids is an entirely selfish decision - “I want, I had an urge”. The only selfless reasons I can think of are:

1. You believe life is awesome and amazing and a gift, and you want someone else to experience it
2. You believe society needs more children, so you have them and encourage them info a profession with shortages, like care work

No-one is doing it for those reasons. In fact I can guarantee that all the Mumsnetters saying “well be glad people have children because they’ll be the ones wiping your arse!” do NOT want their children to go into care work and wipe anyone’s arses. They all want them to be bankers/lawyers/corporate tech managers - a lot of jobs that are detrimental to society and encourage consumerism.

Have I ever suggested that people should be forced to have children?

That's a really strange generalisation. I have family near and far and I'm not estranged from any of them. I just prefer the company of my friends.

Yes, but other types of support are valuable. Nowadays, you don’t need to live around the corner to be connected and helpful. Plus you can visit regularly.

I’m not denying what other posters have said about ppl not being visited in retirement homes, etc., I personally know one set of parents who are somewhat ignored, but it’s not the norm. I’ve got more ruthless in ditching friends who aren’t particularly nice though, perhaps that’s why, my friends are lovely!

This! To suggest everyone should have children, 'in case we run out of working age adults' is just ridiculous!' There's not enough jobs NOW to go around, and with modern technology and AI, and lots of things being automated and online now, less and less jobs are becoming available. Having much less humans will be of a great benefit for many reasons! If only 50% of humans reproduced, that would be a great positive for Planet Earth.

I don’t understand why that’s a difficult concept 🤔

i can only tell you about my parenting experience but my kids are my whole life. I pretty much pushed myself to one side to focus on them. So for me it’s been incredibly selfless.

I agree, @SweetBirdsong . As @Justthistime1234 referenced with the FT article upthread, there’ll be a painful adjustment period, but we’ll have to adapt and put up with it.

I genuinely don't see how a selfish decision like becoming a parent can lead to entirely selfless actions.

The way you describe it is all a bit..nauseating, honestly.

The post I replied to from a child free person took great pleasure in telling me that parenting and children were a miserable empty slog. I admit I lashed out at that and should not have used the word pity, but I stand by the rest as that is my experience.

Why should the CF be able to band together and bang on about how horrible kids and parenting is, but I can’t reply to say I completely disagree?

Note also I said “child free” as in by choice.

For balance, I am not a selfless parent. They can finish my chips, but no one's touching my whole nut. Or my makeup. Or my free time.

Haha, that sounds much more realistic

My parents were (and are) great parents but they certainly weren't entirely selfless, and bloody good for them I say.

My mum was a martyr. I did not want to spend my life serving others and moaning about it.

That's my day job. I like to moan about that at home instead.

You started this thread. And have been deliberately goady - you set up the situation where you could lash out. Take some responsibility for yourself. You rightly got a roasting on here. Have your experience by all means. But stop extrapolating this to other people - you do not have the definitive experience of what love is like for anyone else but you.

You literally started a thread asking why people weren’t having children, you must have expected negatives as answers. You obviously created it as a thinly-veiled excuse to bash childfree people and tell us our existence is inferior to yours. Classic. Yawn!

My bingo card is just about full.