It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

[Housebuyingfamily]

Birth rates are on the floor which people frame as, people would have more kids were it not for the cost of them or climate change, etc etc. But I feel like it’s now more than this. As if we have a global child-free culture that’s growing every day and it’s becoming increasingly “unfashionable” to have kids, even looked down upon.

Yep, and tbh, whilst I know 2 childfree women - in their 50s and 60s (one widowed, one single for 20+ years) who are quite lonely, and are a bit afraid of being alone and struggling in their old age, I do know another 2 who are very happy, with a large group of friends, and an active social life.

I also know 4 or 5 people in their 60s and 70s who have children, and they have little or no relationship with them. The children left the town they grew up in (or even left the country,) and they're lucky if they see them once a year. They won't be stepping up and caring for them when they need help and care.

I also knew a lady who lived near me (she died aged 88 two years ago,) and she had five children. 4 sons and a daughter. Just have a guess who ended up having to care for her when she got elderly and infirm and couldn't drive anymore, and had to drive her around everywhere? Yep,the daughter!

The FOUR SONS, FOUR of them - 2 older and 2 younger than the daughter - couldn't be fucked to even visit her more than 2 or 3 times a year. So if she had not had the daughter, she'd have had no-one (probably!) Her DH died when she was in her 50s.

Same with another older lady I know (late 60s) 2 sons both in their 40s, and neither of them keep in touch with her or visit her. Like fuck will they be coming to help if she needs it.

Of course SOME people have good or great relationships with their children, and they do care for them/help them when they're older. (DH and I have a great relationship with ours fortunately - and they live not too far away, and I am fairly sure they will be there if we need them when we're older...) But it's not a given that if you have children that they will care for you when you get old and infirm, or indeed that they will be anywhere near you at all!

So you're saying just BC all your friends have kids, you should have them too? Seems quite selfish to me.

I have always known I don't want kids. Didn't want them as a teenager, hated babysitting, didn't want them in my 20s, don't want them in my 30s and have never, at any point in my life even slightly questioned that decision. I look at the lives of my friends who are parents and they look like hell to me. There are plenty of people who feel the same way.

And heaven knows there are plenty of parents who really shouldn't have had children.

Ain't that the truth. Yet if you read the responses on here, you'd think parents were angels with endless love, compassion and empathy!

@OppsUpsSide Why? Why is 'a falling birth rate' a problem? The world could do with less humans.

In my experience, childfree people are better at planning and building networks. They value their friendships and relationships more and have the time to maintain them. It tends to be the people with children who let those things slide to focus on raising children and then end up lost and lonely when their children grow up and fuck off to live their own lives.

I see a lot of people talk about dying alone. But childfree people will be prepared for that. They tend to put things in place ahead of time because they don't take it for granted that someone else will sort things out for them like many people with children do. And death is really only a tiny part of your overall life. Your last moments don't cancel out your life lived.

Some people with children are just as likely to die alone.

Quite. Nearly all my family live abroad, we are immigrants. My grandma has next to no friends and mocks anyone who joins groups or does volunteering (like the other elderly in her area). She has a go at me saying “you never call me” - while being rude and unpleasant and having a go at me for not wanting children.

Both of her daughters (my mum and auntie) emigrated and she hasn’t put effort into making other friends. Knowing you won’t have kids sort of forces you to make friends and join various networks!

Which is the real tragedy.

This is all very true. I think a lot of people with children see the childfree as selfishly avoiding hard work. But there are many ways to contribute to society. For example, I was at a hospital recently and there was a lady volunteering who I guess was around 80 years old. She might have been doing that for decades. Or we have a local hospice and I've noticed that many of the volunteers are middle aged to older. They are using their time in a productive and valuable manner, and quite possibly building strong friendships through their work.

End of life is a worry without children, I must admit. I worry a lot about dying alone. But there are services and help you can access. For example, I've been reading a lot about ExtraCare housing lately. Something I fear terribly is losing my partner and not have a child to help me through my grief. But who is to say a child is best placed to offer that support (and what a terrible reason to bring them into the world in the first place - I had you so that you can suffer with me when your father dies!). In ExtraCare housing they have trained bereavement support workers.

It's a problem for humans because we will soon run out of working age adults.

If you are only concerned about the environment and not at all concerned about the well-being of humans then you will of course not regard it as a problem!
Should we assume from your post that you are in that group?

Why is it? I didn’t have a child as some kind of quid pro quo of childhood care in expectation of reciprocal old age care. I took off to explore the world and spent much of my adult life to date in other countries, despite being fond of my parents. I hope and expect DS will do the same, and won’t be restricted by whatever country I live in when he’s at the wing-stretching phase. If he, like his parents, enjoys life on the move, and DH or I die suddenly, it’s perfectly possible he won’t be at our deathbeds, and I will make sure he knows I’m fine with that. Love doesn’t have to involve end of life care, or encompass geographical proximity. Having him has been a delight and a privilege added to a life that was already good. I’d hate it if he went around burdened by obligations.

Whilst there are simultaneously warnings about many jobs becoming obsolete due to technology.

Even if this is a problem, the answer to it isn’t ’compel people to have children they don’t want’, as if that wouldn’t naturally create a whole host of it’s own problems even outside of increasing overpopulation to prop up an unsustainable pyramid scheme.

Ultimately, humans will adapt to changing circumstances as they always have done.

I've been a nurse for what feels like a million years. Having children definitely does not guarantee someone won't die alone. Especially if those children have their own families or live a distance away. And you wouldn't believe how many children are estranged from their elderly parent(s).

My advice for old age is write a Will, have a funeral plan, find a good retirement village/home so you will still have your freedom but also support as your needs change over time. This might be what ExtraCare housing is? If so, you're being smart. The other thing to think about is if you end up in hospital, you will need someone to bring you things and take care of your laundry. Your living facility might accommodate this. If not, you can hire a private carer. Or if you are very involved with a church community there are often people willing to help with this.

Edited to say that last part about a private carer is only really a problem if you don't have friends around you anymore.

DinnerOnTheGrass, the whole premise of much of the thread has been telling the child free they will die alone and lonely and how awful that would be. I think it would be a greater tragedy for those whose expectation is that their children will be around in their old age for companionship and comfort, and in reality their offspring are nowhere to be seen.

There's a medium ground between being in your children's pockets and never seeing them from one year to the next. Would you honestly not be a bit hurt if you never saw your son?

@Jhound. As I said upthread though, most of my middle-aged friends do support their parents in various ways, including myself, who lives in a different country.

Thanks to technology, I can ring my Dad daily , I can arrange various services for him and I visit every 3-4 months. I also encourage other family and friends to call and visit him.

It’s slightly off topic for this thread, but it does annoy me when MN’ers suggest that most middle-aged people don’t make an effort with their elderly parents, that’s not the case at all among my friends ( with a couple of exceptions).

Thank you, Holly. In some ways I think I will always regret not having a family. It’s not that I don’t want children, just that my circumstances aren’t right. I do worry I’ll lie alone in hospital one day with no one to visit or bring me any of the little things I might need. I just hope that I can be a good enough person throughout my life that there may be some people who care about me. May I ask, so you see patients receiving support from those outside their family?

I understand that. I’m saying that in my view, it’s not a ‘tragedy’ either way. I wasn’t planning to have children, and I got the full panoply of the ‘selfish/chilly careerist/ dying alone’ remarks till I had DS at 40 (after which I got ‘an only is a lonely’ and ‘you’re selfish to only have one’, usually from the same people😀🙄).

Nothing could give me more pleasure than seeing DS exploring the world, supported by more educated and financially comfortable parents and more opportunities thsn either of his parents had. I hope we’ll be able to continue to love one another regardless of proximity. DH and I have plans too, for when DS is making his own way. We won’t be sitting about waiting to be visited.

I didn't have children for company in old age or someone to be my carer. I hope they live their own lives. I coped before they were born and I'll cope when they grow up.

I see enough posts from adult children overstepping on the elderly parents forum to think it's better to be independent in old age if you can be

If you mean in hospital, yes. Usually friends and neighbours. Less common are private carers or someone from the residential home. Church people. People with specific illnesses or disabilities sometimes have volunteers from those charities. It's rare for someone to have no one at all.

The ones that do have no one at all are usually the very elderly from nursing homes. They actually often have children, but those children are quite old themselves and not really able to do anything.

Basically just build a community and support network around you. Not everyone has to be a close friend. You can use services to meet your practical needs.

That’s not the case in my friendship group at all. We are all professional working people. Most of us moved away from home for university and have created our lives with our partners. Most, not all have had kids.

But our weekends are very much about spending time with friends, as our kids are at university. Very rarely do our friends have the family commitments that you describe here. Leaving for university was key in breaking that geographical bond and our social lives are wide but extended families are definitely not at the centre of it. For logistical reasons. With cousins living in Scotland, London, Wales, Australia, Canada and the US, it’s simply not possible. And most have siblings working in different cities or overseas.

Friends are so important to us all. And we probably actually have a lot more in common with them.

You need to make friends with people who either have no family or they are far away or estranged.

I'm not sure if unfashionable is the right word, but I do think it's become a lot more "normal" to not have children, only have one or to have them later in life. I've definitely noticed this in my circle. In my family I have a sibling and several cousins in their twenties like me and only myself and one other has a child. Most of the others are no where near even thinking about having children yet, or likely won't ever have them. It's the same in my DH's family. Yet our parents generation all had children or at least were close to having them at this age.

I think this has definitely been a factor for DH’s siblings @Comedycook. They’re geographically scattered but keep in regular touch and aren’t estranged. In a crisis, they have each other’s backs, they meet up several times a year, etc. As an only child, I haven’t got this and it probably did influence my life choices.

Why would not having children mean you live a selfish life?