It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

[Housebuyingfamily]

Birth rates are on the floor which people frame as, people would have more kids were it not for the cost of them or climate change, etc etc. But I feel like it’s now more than this. As if we have a global child-free culture that’s growing every day and it’s becoming increasingly “unfashionable” to have kids, even looked down upon.

I find this perspective (which is absolutely endemic) quite irritating. Some people really genuinely don’t want kids and it’s not necessarily because of psychological damage or social failure. Why do some people have a hard time accepting this?

I find this perspective (which is absolutely endemic) quite irritating. Some people really genuinely don’t want kids and it’s not necessarily because of psychological damage or social failure. Why do some people have a hard time accepting this?

I think people who are genuinely happy with the choices they’ve made are genuinely happy for those who’ve made different ones and are happy with them.

I had quite a negative view of what parenting would be like before we even decided to conceive, but on balance, I decided that I'd probably regret it more if I didn't have a go. I didn't know anyone with kids; was first in my friendship group to do it, but I was fairly settled in work and wanted to try something new. Probably would have been cheaper to take up a new hobby.

I have been guilty on focusing primarily on the negatives- especially in the early years- but no one comes on and talks about the funny bits or the warm bits. Or how they become self sufficient quicker than you think.... leaving you plenty of time to do what you want. I will probably see mine (early teens) around tea time. Possibly a fleeting glimpse at lunch time, when they feed themselves.

They don't treat them well. I'm seeing more and more undisciplined dogs because there seems to be a gentle- dog- ownership trend and they won't take leadership over them. They have often made their dogs neurotic, unable to be left alone and if anything happens, they won't be able to be rehomed. The amount of them who got dachhounds, who now rule the household and are aggressive because they need strong ownership.
I know quite a few couples approaching 30 who just can't financially think about children, but want them.

@GratitudeGrump

I understand that you haven’t explicitly said people are an aberration but you have said you are “sad and baffled” when people list the negatives. People who have and want children very often see having children as the natural, healthy default. The clear implication is that not wanting them is regrettable and evidence that all is not entirely well.

I think what some people find irritating (and for the record I have a child and I wanted her), is the assumption that it’s fine to lobby the child free on the benefits of having children but that people who celebrate the freedoms of not having children should shut up about it because it’s “negative”.

It’s one rule for one set of people and another for the other.

Irresponsible dog ownership is by no means confined to those without children.

Hear hear!

I'm talking about people who don't have children listing the negatives of having children.
How is that 'celebrating the freedoms of not having children'???

To be clear, I'm totally on board with people talking about the positives of their child free life - I have a lot of child free friends and I love hearing about what they're doing. To repeat what I actually said, I am sad and baffled when people who don't have children list the negatives of having children. If I did the same thing - listed the negatives of not having children - I'm sure child free people would be similarly not happy.

It's not as cut and dried as just seeing the positives or negatives of a particular lifestyle though is it? Ultimately making a decision about being child-free is about self-knowledge.

I can be the first to reel off the list of negatives re: what parenting looks like from the outside. Every time I visit parent friends I come away thanking a God I don't even believe in that that's not my life. Not just the stress and the frazzle but the way every single decision of every single day has to be made with non-adults in mind. It looks like you get all your agency over yourself ripped away.

But I also see that parenting makes my friends incredibly happy! They may be stressed at times but they're not miserable and sometimes their face lights up totally involuntarily when talking about their kids and it's wonderful to see. But at the same time I know that it's not for me. I also have a friend whose face lights up when she talks about wild swimming at 6am in the winter and that too is not for me. My face probably lights up when I talk about tasting menus or new music and I'm sure some of my friends wouldn't get it to the extent that I do.

FWIW I don't know anyone who goes OTT with "fur baby" talk, except in an obviously tongue-in-cheek way, but I know a lot of people - child-free people, even - whose faces lights up like that when they talk about their animals. I couldn't really imagine anything other than being happy for them.

I don't really see why anyone needs to do any cod-psychology on themselves or their acquaintances to justify why you want no children, one child, many children or just some cats. I didn't have a great childhood so yes, it makes sense that I don't think of childhood in general as something to treasure or something I want any part of as an adult. My deepest childhood longing was to be an adult, because that meant freedom, and freedom is the one thing I'll hold on to as much as I can - it gives me greater joy than any amount of love, if I'm honest. And possibly because of my suboptimal childhood, I've learned to prioritise pleasure as an adult - I'm a hedonist in a fundamental sense in that I think one's life should be geared towards maximum ease and enjoyment. None of that makes me damaged or selfish, though.

I don't know about "unfashionable", perhaps just more common. In my friendship ground, five of us have decided not to have children which seems quite high. A couple have had one child, and one wants them but hasn't been able to.

Yep it's very depressing.

I am child free not by choice originally and have learned to embrace it more as I have aged. I work with children and enjoy it, but that's enough for me.
I think there's more honesty around parenthood now. 30 years ago I worked with a woman who freely admitted she didn't love her child, she had never wanted him in the first place, fed him, clothed him, etc, but beyond that wasn't really interested. The child was a teen at this point. Everybody was horrified by this, that any mother could think like that, myself included (and sorry for the child, since she said she didn't hide it from him and had told him once she wasn't legally responsible he was on his own). But in latter years, more women have admitted they don't have the bond (albeit under the anonymity of the internet) and it wasn't PND, it just never really happened.
The internet has meant that women who don't get the instant connection can talk about it, not without judgement, but with anonymity. Gradually, we are hearing from parents who do regret it. It's more acceptable to talk about the negatives. And slowly we are getting better at acknowledging that the magical, automatic bond is a bit of a, not exactly myth, but not as universal as presumed.
I think people are less willing to have a child when they are unsure based on someone else gushing about how different it is when you have your own, the love as soon as you see the baby, because we do now hear about when that isn't the case. And it's a heck of a gamble with your own and a child's life to do something you aren't sure about on the off chance that you'll feel this.

I find it interesting that whenever someone posts about not wanting children, it's inevitable that someone will jump in and say "but can't you imagine all the positives?!"

Yes, I can, but I still don't want them!

@GratitudeGrump

To repeat what I actually said, I am sad and baffled when people who don't have children list the negatives of having children. If I did the same thing - listed the negatives of not having children - I'm sure child free people would be similarly not happy.

But the premise of this whole thread is people wondering why fewer people are having children. The use of the word “fashion” is also a giveaway as it clearly suggests some people are doing it to make a point.

When people seek to answer this from their own experience the reaction of a lot of parents to a) become defensive and express “bafflement” that people can’t see the positives and b) in some cases to imply that it’s because of social failure (lack of money usually).

However you look at it, most people are coming from the standpoint that it’s “natural” to want children.

I don't have kids, and most of my close friends don't have kids. All by choice.

I think a lot of people are more clued into the stress of having kids, despite social media's best attempts.

I don't feel like kids would add anything positive to my life and just be a lot of stress. My partner and I are self-employed, we can travel a lot at the cheapest times of year, get up when we like, plan our work when we like, go out at night when we like, see our friends at weekends. Have time for hobbies and learning new things. Volunteer in the community outside our bubble, helping people in need and improving the local environment and services for people. We have enough money to be comfortable and don't have conversations that revolve around poo or homework.

Best case scenario I'd shit myself, rip my genitals, and deal with endless screaming followed by stage after stage of different problems, 24/7 for at least 18 years, by something that drains my time and money. All while telling myself it was worth it because they look cute asleep. "This too shall pass" just seems to involve every stage, with people saying "it'll get better" when what they actually mean is a new set of problems. Then they'll either never leave home and you never get peace, or they leave home and barely speak to you again anyway after the first few years, leaving you thinking, what was the point of all that stress.

Every time I see friends that do have kids they seem incredibly stressed. It's hard to have a conversation because they're demanding attention or listening in. Many of them regret it, or their partner, or their life in general.

I feel like the most common reason people give for having kids is that they worry they'll be alone in old age, which is one of the most selfish reasons and also you aren't going to be able to force your kids to look after you (and why should they give up their lives anyway).

I'll be in sheltered accommodation with all my friends, playing bingo 😂

I had a brother 10 years younger - and I absolutely hated it

I have one elder sister and three much younger siblings. I felt the same way about them. I found children dull and boring when I was a child. That hasn't changed now I'm an adult.

Yes. It’s not really surprising that when women do not instantly fall in love with their baby, as they have been repeatedly promised they will, they end up with PND.

I thought it was a bit of a status symbol to have kids now 🤷 Especially families who can afford to raise more than 3 children.

@Thepeopleversuswork excellent post, couldn't agree more.

I've held a baby once - my best friend's newborn daughter, back in the 80s. Only did it because she wanted a photo. I'd had quite enough of children by the time I left school.

That's not what happened on this thread. Someone listed the negatives and I asked if they could also see the positives. Context is important.

I can see the positives. But they don’t outweigh the negatives for everyone.

I never saw any positives about the idea of having children. Don't like them, never wanted to put my body through that, never wanted that additional financial stress or the slog of putting them through school etc. Absolutely nothing about it, or them, appealed, or does now. Child-free sums up my attitude and desires about it.

I don't agree with using the word 'fashion' as I think it's flippant and judgemental but I do think the low birth rate is in some way due to how our society is at the moment - people's choices are being influenced, not by fashion, but by societal norms and attitudes as well as the things going on in the world around us.

“The positives may outweigh the negatives” works for stuff like camping, trying drugs or going to a new country you’re not sure about. Try it, it you hate it then you can never do it again and life carries on as normal. But with a kid you can’t just hand it back to a shelter.