It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

[Housebuyingfamily]

Birth rates are on the floor which people frame as, people would have more kids were it not for the cost of them or climate change, etc etc. But I feel like it’s now more than this. As if we have a global child-free culture that’s growing every day and it’s becoming increasingly “unfashionable” to have kids, even looked down upon.

I'm child free by choice and personally can't think of anything worse than being a parent - it looks absolutely horrendous.

I love my parents and had a great childhood but I honestly don't feel I'm selfless enough to raise a child. I don't want to give up two decades of my life to raise another person and it wouldn't be fair on any child to bring them into the world as it stands either, imo.

Isn't it noticeable how these threads soon show not only finger-pointing at the childfree, but barely-hidden disdain for those who love animals? It all boils down to telling women we should really get back to having children and having no life outside that.

Having a child is definitely hard. But surely you can see the positive side too?

I completely get the childfree, as I had no intention of having a child until I was 40 and decided it might be interesting, so spent years experiencing all the weird assumptions and snide remarks at neighbours’ parties. On the other hand, the obsessive ‘fur-babies’ type of pet owner makes me roll my eyes. I don’t think they’re related.

Having a child is definitely hard. But surely you can see the positive side too?

I genuinely can't. I look at my friends with children and they all seem to be permanently frazzled and stressed out about something - be that finances or school or activities or behaviour - it just looks awful to me 🤷‍♀️

But I'm sure people feel the same way about owning a dog, or multiple cats, or what I do for a living - it's all horses for courses really.

They certainly aren't, and ime the people who talk about their pets that way are as likely to have children as not. The few times I've heard anyone use those terms about their pets, however much they love them, it's been tongue-in-cheek.

You can't imagine loving a child, taking joy in their development? Your friends sound like quite a miserable bunch!

For me, not really. The positive part is what other people tell me (greatest love ever, your heart melts when they achieve something) but not something I can imagine. It’s too much of a risk for me to make a lifechanging decision because other people tell me it was right for them. I’m not other people. Other people have told me many things were great and I should DEFINITELY do it, I did, they were awful.

Actually one positive I can see is having adult children. But that’s literally it.

Were there many younger children in your life growing up? I had a lot of younger cousins and my sister is seven years younger than I am so I had a sort of preview into what it's like to experience the development of another person. I couldn't wait to experience it with my own children. For me (aware not everyone is bothered!) it's one of the most thrilling and interesting things to see someone go from being a tiny helpless newborn into a person with thoughts and opinions who can walk and talk. It's genuinely amazing. The fact that that person's my child makes it even more amazing. I do get the horses for courses argument - my friend's a doctor and thinks it's the best thing ever. I couldn't imagine anything worse.

I can imagine loving a child, but I’m also constantly reading posts on here from parents who feel. “touched out”,fantasise about being alone,having shit holidays, cliquey mums at the school gate, stroppy entitled teens and adult children who treat them like shit.

I’m not childless by choice, at least not originally, and I realise there are some positives I’ve missed out on, but the older I get the happier I am to have missed out on the negatives.

You can't imagine loving a child, taking joy in their development? Your friends sound like quite a miserable bunch!

Actually, friends aren't a "miserable bunch" at all - they're wonderful, interesting people who find parenting a lot harder than they ever imagined they would.

And no, I can't imagine being a parent and dedicating my life to another human in that respect. I'll be the first to admit I'm selfish and would rather prioritise myself though!

And yes, same here @KimberleyClark - it's not the loving the child part that I think I would struggle with - it's everything else!

I think that's a really interesting point about experiencing that for yourself with other children before having your own. A lot of us aren't from big families with lots of kids and don't spend much time around them growing up.

For me when I had kids it was like stepping into the twilight zone and everything was completely different. I can imagine for someone very involved with family children that it would be more like an extension of your current family life.

I guess some of us without much experience of kids will do it for biological urge reasons anyway but I wonder if this sense of the unknown does make it seem a much scarier proposition.

@Catsmere

It all boils down to telling women we should really get back to having children and having no life outside that.

I think there’s an element of truth in this. Not so much in relation to children vs pets, more in relation to children vs other sources of interest and self actualisation.

I do think a fairly substantial group of people think that children are tye only proper, authentic and wholesome direction for a woman’s efforts. They may not think this consciously but it’s very evident in their focus.

I have lost count of the conversations I have had with people where they will ask how I am and I will talk about some aspect of my life (my job, hobbies or social life) and they will immediately bulldoze into asking about my daughter as if the rest is window dressing.

I think that a lot of the attitudes on this thread follow this logic: people find it so self evident that children are a blessing and a goal for everyone that they assume any woman who doesn’t want them is warped or damaged in some way or has been “let down by society”, either due to mistreatment by men, lack of money or some other defect.

In fact the way I see it is totally different: having children was in the past a more or less inevitable trajectory for a woman’s life. Contraception, improved career opportunities and better education mean that is no longer automatically the case. Women are therefore able to revert to their genuine wishes with respect to children and have them or not have them as they see fit rather than having them because it was expected of you and something everyone did.

I see this as an unequivocal positive to be honest. There are large amounts of data that show positive links between female independence and female reproductive control and healthier socities.

Trying to spin female reproductive autonomy as “sad” in some way is wildly missing the mark.

Yes - I had a brother 10 years younger - and I absolutely hated it. I hated the noise, being woken up at 7 every day, spending weekends at petting zoos and funfairs, watching CBeebies. I just wanted to be alone and missed being an only child. Everyone is different. I got 0 joy out of having a small sibling, I just found him incredibly annoying, spoilt and bratty. That whole experience is what made me childfree and I’ve never really wavered since. We actually get on really well now but we are both adults!

I do enjoy spending time with other family member’s children as an adult, but once they are a bit older, and if they’re well behaved.

I definitely think lack of experience plays a part. Looking at it from the outside, parenting does seem terrible - exhausting, hard work, thankless - I think potentially you can only really see the positives from the inside? I was like a third parent to my sister and I often think of her as my child (and she treats me a lot like a mum - too much at times!) so I sort of had a very small dry run in advance and knew the kind of connection that was possible. I was desperate to have my own children, it was the only thing I wanted. Given that viewpoint I admit it makes me sad and sort of baffled when people just list the superficial negatives. But then I am aware not everyone feels the way I do - I'm just totally biased.

There’s also lots of people that grew up in big families and say they’ve “done their time” and don’t want any kids themselves. Your attitude is basically “if people were exposed to kids more, they would want them”. Lots of us are exposed to them and that’s what makes us not want them!

It's a lot easier to put the negatives into words, "I'm shattered because I'm not sleeping at night" "I'm stressed from the constant demands of their bloody school" than the positives which are more personal I suppose.

True! I'm thinking of friends who never held a baby - the prospect of the first baby you look after being your own must be utterly terrifying.

That’s the problem, isn’t it, with any major life decision which can’t be ‘pre-viewed’ or rehearsed, when you have to go on what you see around you and what other people say about it?

I have no difficulty whatsoever understanding why someone chooses to be childfree (I was planning to stay CF myself, had my one child at 40, and lots of my friends don’t have children by choice so I’m still in touch very much with what a childfree life looks like), but also, I don’t recognise the vast majority of things I read on here about parenthood. My life hasn’t changed a whole lot since having DS — he’s a delightful addition. Yes, he can definitely be a stroppy, emotional teenager, but that’s mildly tiresome but developmentally normal, and he’s also funny and clever and interesting. . I still work FT in a job I love, I’ve never gone on a shit holiday, was not cast into gloom and paranoia by the school run, and I get plenty of alone time ordinarily and often go away by myself. (This is probably helped by not having had a child with an asshole.) I think the odd (but probably predictable) thing about parenthood is that it’s largely individual to the person, and that person’s individual child, who is their own person. There’s no ‘standard’ experience of ‘parenting’.

@GratitudeGrump

Given that viewpoint I admit it makes me sad and sort of baffled when people just list the superficial negatives

That’s the whole point though surely? The ability to choose based on what you want rather than what society wants for you?

You really wanted kids. Great. Some people really don’t. You seem to be suggesting that can only be because something has gone wrong in their life, that they have somehow been “let down”. In essence you are implying that everyone instinctively wants children and anyone who doesn’t want them is an aberration from the norm.

I find this perspective (which is absolutely endemic) quite irritating. Some people really genuinely don’t want kids and it’s not necessarily because of psychological damage or social failure. Why do some people have a hard time accepting this?

And there’s no standard experience of childfree life either, despite many people with kids thinking it’s one of endless superficial frivolity and empty pleasure seeking and the prospect of a bleak lonely old age.

I said nothing about being let down so I don't know where you got that from. I also said nothing about being an aberration from the norm.

I'm saying I see the positives of parenting so I find it hard when someone just points out all the negatives. Nothing more than that. It's purely a personal point of view and no comment on anyone's psychological damage or social failure - you're projecting those things yourself.

This post sums it up beautifully for me. I don't have kids and neither do my three best female friends. Of the four of us I'm the only one with a traumatic childhood: none of us are high-fliers but we all like our jobs, three of us are in stable loving relationships of several decades' duration, the fourth is single by choice.

What we have in common is that we have had the freedom to make our own choices about whether to have children and none of us have felt the urge to. For us, feeling the urge to have children is a bit like believing in god: you either feel it or you don't.

I had my ds at 35 and I'm almost 40 pregnant with my second. It has definitely changed life but I haven't lost who I am, still have a decent job. I've always been able to look after myself still. Yes childcare is expensive but it's temporary. It's not all doom and gloom. Coming from someone who's always been quite "selfish". It's gave life another dimension