It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

[Housebuyingfamily]

Birth rates are on the floor which people frame as, people would have more kids were it not for the cost of them or climate change, etc etc. But I feel like it’s now more than this. As if we have a global child-free culture that’s growing every day and it’s becoming increasingly “unfashionable” to have kids, even looked down upon.

HV saying that you can't leave a baby on its own even to go to the loo.

Ridiculous but believable

One of my friends got a dog not long after I had my first child. She, in all seriousness, said 'Now that I have DDog, I think I understand what having a child is like. I adore him and worry about him...blah, blah, blah.' I couldn't resist reminding her of it a few years later when she had her first child. She was very embarrassed. I just found it funny.

What is wrong with people loving their pets, and treating them well?

Brilliant comment.

See what I'm wondering is it the fact that we have fewer kids that has led to these more demanding standards for baby care and parenting or is it the increasingly demanding standards that have been putting people off having kids or having bigger families?

I think it's having fewer kids and more access to information. It used to be about keeping your kids alive and making sure they didn't show you up in public. You also needed to instil a good work ethic for when they left school at 15 (my parents' gen).

Then for my gen, it remained the same. Except I was allowed to stay on top do a levels. Bit of a battle to go to uni ('but what's the point? Go and get a job in the council. )

Then when I had mine, I was so used to doing my research for everything, it was natural to research how to parent- with a big dose of my own upbringing. I don't live my life in thrall to them. Yes, the do activities, but only if it fits around work. My ultimate aim is to bring up kids who are useful members of society. Anything else is a bonus.

I also live in an area where people tend to have children fairly young and don't have any truck with how they should currently be parenting. My sling wearing, breast feeding ways were seen as quite eccentric a decade ago round here.

I sensed the stress from my parents and it made my childhood worse. They were young and worried about money and they couldn't hide it (even when they did try). It was not having enough nutritious food (children from some communities tend to be shorter, stunted). It was not being able to ask for any extracurriculars and feeling too guilty about even thinking of it, being guilted out of wanting or continuing anything with money. Being afraid to invite anyone home - not just because of the house but your parents are time and money poor and would rather rest and so much more.

That was my hope. I think fewer children means more options from them but I'm beginning to doubt even that. Unless most young people are desiring to work in care, the few jobs will be those actively working on AI and AI doing all the interesting work humans used to do.

I can't remember if it was in the podcast only from 01:39;11 I thought raised some interesting points.

Yes I would want so much more for a future child and at this point I don't think it is possible so better not to bring them into it! I'd go so far as saying money can buy happiness, not all the time, not in all circumstances but quite often if you don't start with much.

Babies who die every 10-15 years. Then you just buy another one

Well aren't you a joy.

I'd like to say fuck off, but it would get me deleted.

I'm someone who's childfree by choice, and surrounded by friends who have children. Maybe it's because I actively don't want to go down that path, but they all confide in me just how difficult it is to be a parent these days.

Economically, they're all screwed - childcare is eyewateringly expensive, mortgage's are through the roof and the general cost of living is making it almost impossible for them to get by. They're not on minimum wage either - many in very good jobs. It absolutely stunts the career and they're starting to realise that you really can't have it all like all the films make out.

The support networks just aren't there - a generation of people raised by their grandparents whilst their own parents work, now not having that same support mechanism in place. I see both sides - so much of the "village" is dependent on womens unpaid labour and nobody ever asks Grandad to help out, but it's difficult when you're raised with the expectation that you'll have family around you because that's what your own parents had.

The expectations on parents and the constant criticism is brutal - how you give birth, how you feed the baby, how you comfort the baby, all of these things bring such strong opinions - usually from other parents, and it's so mentally draining feeling like you're constantly under fire for doing things "the wrong way". Again, they probably tell me these things because I know nothing about child rearing, and don't know what the "wrong way" or "right way" is.

Plus, men just aren't stepping up. Women are going above and beyond - 45% of women are the breadwinner these days. Men are still following the examples of their fathers and grandfathers and just not pulling their fair share - but they get praise for doing the bare minimum.

Unless you've got that innate biological urge that some posters mention on here for children - why on earth would you logically want to have a child? Your child will be at home until 40 due to not being able to afford to move out, the world will be burning down due to climate change or all out war, and as the mother, you're the one that takes all the crap and picks up all the dirt after everybody else.

See what I'm wondering is it the fact that we have fewer kids that has led to these more demanding standards for baby care and parenting or is it the increasingly demanding standards that have been putting people off having kids or having bigger families?

There are far more expectations on parents nowadays vs my parents (I was born in the 80s).

Some people think holidays abroad are a luxury, for example. I think they are important to developing fully rounded people with interests and experiences.

Loads of dc don’t go abroad but they are still well rounded adults and plenty of adults are not well rounded despite having holidays!

@OutsideLookingOut I’m a little scared of AI tbh, but I’m not sure how else we’ll manage when there are far more elderly than young people. When someone retires and there’s no one younger to replace them, we’ll have shortages in many sectors. Some jobs will become obsolete and others will become v. expensive as fewer people will work in them.

I definitely relate to the paet about men not stepping up in my culture they are still raised up to be men who go to work and women do everything else. I just refuse to be with a guy who thinks like that so here I am single and ill stay single rayher than saddle myself with a man child. I also don't have the urge to have children either so that helps me be more content about my single status

Not at all. More people are embracing bigger families again. Bring back wholesome family life as it always was traditionally.

Of course it's become unfashionable - or, at least, it's incompatible with modern life.

That's why, without immigration, the UK population would be both shrinking and getting older at a catastrophic rate.

Haha good luck trying to convince most women on that then.

There is no going back in any case but I think it will create more losers than winners. That is my cynical take on it.

For example we’ve had shortages in many sectors especially care for years but the pay had not got drastically better.

Have you read anything on the thread?

I mean there are small movements like quiverfull in the US for example but if anything they seem to make the idea of having a big family even less appealing to the average person.

Not at all. More people are embracing bigger families again

What classes as more people?

"Wholesome family life"? Someone's been watching Leave it to Beaver.

“More people than none”.