It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

[Housebuyingfamily]

Birth rates are on the floor which people frame as, people would have more kids were it not for the cost of them or climate change, etc etc. But I feel like it’s now more than this. As if we have a global child-free culture that’s growing every day and it’s becoming increasingly “unfashionable” to have kids, even looked down upon.

Weird premise for a thread.

I find that whenever someone blames "fashion" and "the in thing" and "it's trendy these days" it's usually because they're too out-of-touch or unimaginative to understand that other people can make life choices that are different to theirs, or different to what used to be the norm, simply because they want to.

Not a single child-free or childless person I know has made that decision because it's fashionable. Conversely I've known a few people who had kids simply because they thought it was the done thing and they didn't realise they could actually opt out.

And also, in my 20s I'd say every female friend would have thought having kids was unfashionable. We were a hard-partying, bohemian and arty lot, and kids would have definitely cramped our style. And almost all of them changed their mind! A few of us ended up being child-free for real but even in that context we're a minority. As I understand it, even if you think having kids is unfashionable, if you possess the maternal instinct then that overrides it.

If there's an increase in people opting to be child-free it's down to more women having that option, financially and emotionally and logistically. That's a wonderful thing.

@gannett

I find that whenever someone blames "fashion" and "the in thing" and "it's trendy these days" it's usually because they're too out-of-touch or unimaginative to understand that other people can make life choices that are different to theirs, or different to what used to be the norm, simply because they want to.

God yes it’s so patronising. As if anyone who doesn’t want a cookie cutter white picket fence life is pretentious or attention seeking. See also people who call you “edgy” because they don’t agree with you.

What's the big deal with people treating pets as kids? Are we only allowed to do this if we also have kids? Why is it a problem for people?

Christ, are happily childfree women now expected not to mention being happy with their status, lest it make the mums and women who want to be mums feel like they’re not cool?!

Alternatively we could all grow up?!

The birth rate isn’t falling because of an insidious childfree lobby, anyway, but because those who are having kids aren’t having as many. (Though where I live and work, having 3 is the norm, I know plenty with 4 and very few with only 1 or 2).

@fitzwilliamdarcy

Christ, are happily childfree women now expected not to mention being happy with their status, lest it make the mums and women who want to be mums feel like they’re not cool?!

I do honestly think one of the main reasons people with children are so unsettled about the idea of child free people being happy is envy of the freedom they have.

Plus the fact it goes against everything that was shoved down their throats as children.

What's the big deal with people treating pets as kids? Are we only allowed to do this if we also have kids? Why is it a problem for people?"

Because most hobbies, which having a pet is, don't have a detrimental effect on other people.

But having pets (well, dogs, and to an extent, cats if they poo in your garden) can have a detrimental effect on others. But people get told they have to suck it up because they're fur babies and like children.

As for having children or not having children, it's not a fashion statement either way.

The expression Child free suggests people who have children have sacrificed their freedom and become trapped in a lesser lifestyle. The reality is the majority of parents find the opposite is true and their lives are enriched.

Why does what a group of people describe themselves as make any difference to you and your choices? It implys nothing about you at all. It is how we, who have decided to not have children, describe our status. I'm not childless because although I actually can't have children, I didn't want them in the first place.

I find it really cringey when some women describe themselves as mama bear or x's mummy - but as it doesn't concern me, or my choices, then I don't bother commenting.

Not one woman that you know, but it's a very common sentiment in the area I grew up in and most women on one side of my family had a baby to get a house

I think there’s something in that. I couldn’t care less how happy parents are - it’s irrelevant for me, great for them. The fact that so many of them get so bothered about how happy we are, what words we use to describe ourselves etc. - seems to me to be an issue with them.

I agree with this. Long term single adults are seen as failures. Success is seen as a happy marriage and a few children.

But to actively seek to limit your life in this way and judge people who broaden their horizons or expand their experiences in this way is so depressing.

@Thepeopleversuswork I think it comes down to personality and obviously money plays a role.

I mentioned upthread that DH and I are the only ones in our families to have children, the others are childcare by choice. They have very different lifestyles -one sibling chooses to stay at home with their dogs despite having a professional salary and a lovely home. DH and I can’t understand why they don’t do more with their life, but that’s their choice. Another sibling travels constantly so she’s definitely not worried about environmental Impact! Her life does sound more exciting, but I have wondered why she doesn’t spend more time with her DH.
The third sibling has a great life in another country, although it’s not somewhere I’d personally want to live.

We’re the ones with kids. We do go out a fair bit and have adult friends, although we obviously spend a lot of time with our children. We each have our own hobbies and travel independently-obviously we can’t be S spontaneous as our siblings.

So we’ve all made different choices to suit ourselves, choosing to have children/be childfree hasn’t necessarily broaden or narrowed our lives.

You do know that the way the UK state pension works is not how every other country organises it? In our system people in work now are paying (via taxation) for people drawing a state pension now, which to a certain extent does rely on a certain number of workers (or of course a different taxation system say taking wealth or assets more over earnings). But other countries actually have national pension funds so money is actually set aside through workers contributions for their retirement. Additionally these national funds can be quite helpful things in terms of state investments etc....
Basically we wouldn't need to worry about birth rate or god forbid increasing immigration 😉and it's impact on pensions if we did what other countries did...
It's a fantastic thing that women have choice, I'm celebratory at the falling birth rate quite frankly as it indicates progress in women's rights and freedoms

they're fur babies and like children.

If dogs were like children I wouldn't have had one!

Of course this isn't why people have children.

It's a direct answer to the question of why anyone cares about declining birth rates.

I don't get the fur baby thing at all. Dogs can be a good thing when you treat them like dogs and have a lifestyle that's suitable for the breed of dog. I'm sorry but I find it really weird when people treat them like a replacement for children.

Other cultures (Muslims as an example) still tend to get married and have a lot of kids. It's hard to see our birth rates, outside of certain immigrant communities, ever picking up and immigration picks up the slack.

A problem is people aren't having as many kids as they'd want due to cost, or maybe waiting longer until they're well into their 30s.

@BruFord

Of course: money and personality are hugely important in this picture.

Either having or not having children doesn’t in and of itself make a person interesting, intelligent or happy. It’s what you do with your life.

But the narrative is still surprisingly prevalent that people (and particularly women) can’t be properly happy without children. It’s as though all the other benefits which a child free life would bring: more money, more freedom, greater ability to travel, a better social life and all that stuff is some sort of compensation which is designed to cover your inner pain at not having had children. It’s such bullshit.

I think it must be a demographic thing. Two of the most the most admired and respected women I know are single and child free, in their fifties. Maybe because professionally successful, with full and interesting lives - surrounded by loving and close extended families. Tonnes of both male and female friends. They didn''t choose this, I think both would have very much wanted to meet someone and have a family but it didn't happen.

I wanted kids but it didn't happen. I was sad about it for a while but as someone said below, feelings pass - you move on. My life is very full and happy and I don't have regrets anymore. You can only walk the path you are on - it makes no sense to yearn for a different life.

Honestly though I never feel judged by other women or men because I don't' have children but then I wouldn't honestly hang out with people who were that buttoned up and judgemental. I think you gravitate to like minded people.

Yes I see it all the time on here "there's only so many holidays and meals out you can have before they get a bit samey and feel a bit empty". That depends on how you do them.

Wrong "un".

It's becoming (more) unaffordable to have kids.

So how do we pay for pensions, get a labour force to pay taxes etc to keep the country running if people can not afford to have kids ?

Answers on a postcard.

If some people were only having kids because it was previously fashionable then they probably shouldn't have been having kids. I think there is much more awareness and discourse surrounding being childfree now, either by choice or not by choice and so people are more aware that this is an option.

Oh give it a rest.
If you don't think that kids can have a detrimental effect on other people then you're beyond reason.

My eldest is 33 and a SN teacher. Her brother, our 2nd eldest is severely autistic . Due to her brothers need and possible genetic link she’s decided not to have children coupled with the fact she just doesn’t want to bring kids into the world how it is. Jaded from years of teaching junior school 😂. My youngest two are 17 and 18 and both have said they don’t want children either. I’m happy with that if I’m honest!

Yes I see it all the time on here "there's only so many holidays and meals out you can have before they get a bit samey and feel a bit empty". That depends on how you do them.

Or the the poster up thread who suggested it was “grim” for people in middle age to go to concerts. As if child free people are supposed to know their place and accept their inherently miserable lives. Give me strength.

Makes me properly laugh these folk on here saying having pets is detrimental, get a fucking grip. My Labrador isn't going to go out looting in Sunderland this weekend. He is not going to nick your kids bike. He won't be posting right wing hate all over Twitter.