It’s becoming unfashionable to have kids

[Housebuyingfamily]

Birth rates are on the floor which people frame as, people would have more kids were it not for the cost of them or climate change, etc etc. But I feel like it’s now more than this. As if we have a global child-free culture that’s growing every day and it’s becoming increasingly “unfashionable” to have kids, even looked down upon.

I agree, Op. I know loads of couples who are child-free by choice.

Great that they have a choice. What's the alternative? Incentivising women to have children? Forcing them?

Does it not just indicate that this person's life doesn't have children in it, the way gluten free or dairy free might? Feel like you're projecting a bit...

This is breathtakingly simplistic and ignorant.

You realise it’s not a binary “either/or” scenario? People can both have children and go to concerts, newsflash. People without children sometimes don’t go to concerts. And what exactly is “grim” about going to concerts? Can you articulate this properly or are you just lashing out?

I have a 13 year old DD and have never stopped going to concerts. She now comes with me and is now passionate about music. Which I think is a good thing.

So in your world parenthood entails giving up any kind of entertainment, leisure activity or diversion that doesn’t directly involve your children? What the fuck do you do at weekends? Sit around watching kids TV?

I feel sorry for people whose parents have this little imagination. Your kids will resent for being this narrow minded and dull.

Reading MN i know i made the right choice to be childless and single.

What does make me laugh is some people i know an have read about on here.
Say they dont claim any benefits none at all but yet still claim child benefit that is still a benefit or working tax credit its still a benefit.

I think if you want kids you pay for them.
Or CM hundreds a month and yet its still not enough for some.
Children are not piggy banks or a free ticket to get your own way.

Some people really don’t have any hobbies,passions or interests outside of their children/grandchildren and can’t imagine wanting to do something like going to a concert or any activity that is not child centred.

I have a kid but I completely agree.

DH and I both get free time, separately (mainly) and together, and go off to do non-kid stuff - gym, pub, gigs, meals out, short breaks, hiking, etc.

We even have friends who are childfree 😱

Its healthy for us and healthy for DD.

I agree with this. I've some sympathy for the time pressures of working and parenting but some parents really do become very boring. I always wonder if they are the ones that turn into the intense grandparents that feature in some threads by new parents trying to manage them.

Anyone watched Children Ruin Everything on Netflix? Theme tune is I love my children but children ruin everything. Children can at times be delightful - but they can often be little horrors too.

If biology had not equipped us with strong urges to procreate even fewer women would have children, it is not a sensible decision.

@KimberleyClark

Some people really don’t have any hobbies,passions or interests outside of their children/grandchildren and can’t imagine wanting to do something like going to a concert or any activity that is not child centred.

I agree. I think a fairly large number of people have kids just because they lack the imagination to do anything more interesting or creative and then look down at the child free people because having children is literally the only advantage they have over them. And then bleat on about “who is going to look after you when you are old,” as if that was a relevant motive. A lot of the comments on this thread suggest people with extremely limited imagination.

One thing if your time and money are very limited.

But to actively seek to limit your life in this way and judge people who broaden their horizons or expand their experiences in this way is so depressing. It also tends to make the kids you have boring and self centred.

What does make me laugh is some people i know an have read about on here.
Say they dont claim any benefits none at all but yet still claim child benefit that is still a benefit or working tax credit its still a benefit.

It’s probably because when they were dc, the child benefit equivalent wasn’t means tested. Same way people don’t count the state pension as a benefit.

think if you want kids you pay for them.
Or CM hundreds a month and yet it’s still not enough for some.
Children are not piggy banks or a free ticket to get your own way.

I don’t think it’s common to have dc as a cash cow.

The whole pay for them is a grey area imo. Do we penalise older people for not saving for a pension & abolish pension credit? What about people in social housing without dc?

I wouldn't say the desire has declined, rather the quality of partner with whom to have them...

I don't think fashion has anything to do with it. Just women no longer feel the pressure to become mothers. That has to be a good thing surely? I have quite a few friends who chose a career over kids, and that was 100% the right decision for them. It's very hard to have a career and kids, in some parts of the UK, due to lack of childcare. My child free friends look a good 10 yrs younger than me.

Completely agree with this.

Also agree with the PPs talking about cost of raising children being a massive factor for many. I don't think there's anything about being "fashionable" or not.

My friend group is about 50/50 having kids vs wanting to be child-free, we're in our 30s. Never been any judgment either way about reproduction choices and if anything I think it's only been the last few years or so when choosing not to have kids for any reason (as opposed to not actually being able to) has been seen as a reasonable choice.

I said may feel, not should feel. Of course people can feel however they want to feel about it.

I do have DC but they weren’t a must for me. I would’ve been able to live a happy and fulfilling life without DC.

My main issue with this is with the use of the word “fashionable”. It’s a word which is consistently used to put down women – and other minority or marginalised groups.

How many times over the years have we heard that women are opting for c-sections because it’s more fashionable than good old-fashioned pushing? Or that the Me Too movement was fashionable. Women are speaking up because it’s fashionable. Career Women are in fashion. The list goes on and on, but also, being gay is fashionable these days; dual-heritage relationships are fashionable…

It’s a way of keeping women in their place and reducing our decisions to following the herd or want to look good and keep up with the Joneses rather than accepting that women have their own thoughts, opinions and ideals and are able to use these to take control of their own lives.

The birth rate is declining.Fact.

Has the percentage of women who don’t want children changed over the years? Possibly not. The trouble is that we don’t have that data but it’s just as reasonable to draw from the above fact that all the women who never wanted to be mothers are now following their convictions rather than just going along with it. That’s nothing to do with fashion and if this hypothesis is true than actually nothing has changed in the hearts and heads of women, it’s just that we now have more choice and increasing acceptance of these choices.

There is also a lack of good-quality men. A lot of women would maybe like to have children, but not enough to have them with unsuitable partners. Some men make fine boyfriends/husbands but would be shit fathers.

I think I'd a woman genuinely doesn't want to have children it's great that that option is now socially acceptable and she can choose to remain childfree. However, if she decides she won't have children because she can't find a decent partner, can't afford suitable housing, can't afford childcare or just because the cost of living in general is so high, then whilst remaining childless may well be the sensible decision, its actually incredibly sad and a very poor reflection on our society.

@HollyKnight I agree and it's definitely the case with some of my friends whoa re choosing not to have kids. There is a lot more awareness of how much work a child is and the men just haven't caught up with the times and think they can have a wife with a career AND one that does everything at home.

I was chatting to my friends about it and we all agreed we don't want to be our mothers. Frazzled, exhausted, moody, angry and unhealthy because our dads did fuck all while our mums went out to work and then came home to do EVERYTHING. My dad used to literally walk in the door, sit on the sofa and put his feet up. It actually makes me angry looking back!!! When the fuck did my mum get any sleep??

However, if she decides she won't have children because she can't find a decent partner, can't afford suitable housing, can't afford childcare or just because the cost of living in general is so high, then whilst remaining childless may well be the sensible decision, its actually incredibly sad and a very poor reflection on our society.

Sort of. Many women don't want to raise children in poverty, or on their own, or with shit men. It's not sad that they can make that decision. What was sad was our great-grandmother popping out children for over 20 years to dress them in rags and feed them scraps while their husbands did nothing. It's a good thing that women can now control whether they do or don't have children and what kind of lives they can give them.

It’s a myth that they get all this money. Even poorer families will find having children is more expensive than not having them.

And people who procreate recklessly (and I know loads it’s essentially the background I can from) don’t actually give much thought to the benefits available. They just have sex and pregnancy / babies follow. And only then do they think about how they will manage.

Isn’t the state pension at least partly contributions based though?

I would like to think as more women take that approach men will eventually wake up and realise that they need to change their ways if they want a family. But sadly there will always be women whose desire to have children will override everything else. Easy pickings for those shit men and more children raised to think this is ok.

Very true, men typically want to claim the glory -"I have sired offspring behold my virility"- thereby positioning themselves as the high status person who does not have to do the low status menial work of actually rearing and parenting offspring!