To think contact time is for my ex not his parents?

[brownbanana30]

Hi I’ve posted here before and asked some other questions but NC just to make less identifiable.

My ex and I split up when I was pregnant, he was adamant didn’t want the baby, threatened suicide etc etc.

Notified when DC born, denied paternity, had to go to CMS, sporadic contact every 4-6 weeks…

When DC was around 6 months old he apologised for his behaviour and begged for another chance which I gave (blamed MH, said I was the love of his life, I know it sounds silly and I should never have given another chance given the above but it’s too late now). Not living together as a lot to work through but spoken about that if things were going well we would buy together (his idea).

Began to spend time together as a family and couple/including with his family. Holidays and trips away together. ExDp works away so I did a lot of travelling while on my maternity leave in order to facilitate the contact/our relationship.

Started to notice after a while (been almost a year) that it felt like it was myself doing all the running around, and that often when exDP had time off he was spending it doing what he wanted/with friends/going out rather than being together as a family, which felt odd.

After querying the status of the relationship he said that he didn’t consider us to be together and completely rewrote history.

I decided from that point that I would no longer be a pretend girlfriend, and would not be travelling to him/giving him sex/bringing his child to him/pretending to be a family/or sending him daily texts and photos about his child given we are not together.

I asked him which set days he would like his child but he won’t commit to anything due to working away, says “we” (him, his mum and dad) want DC on an ad hoc basis due to his work, and that I’m being really inflexible. I want stability for DC and also myself as I work full time. I don’t think it’s fair for him to rock up week by week and decide what suits him and his work. DC attends nursery locally so I can work and is very happy and settled.

ExDP now says he is taking me to court and will be asking for an ad hoc arrangement and that he will be given this due to the nature of his work. An “exception” he has called it. Apparently a solicitor has told him this. He says if it’s a no he will have set days however his parents will be having DC due to his work.

I will be speaking to a family solicitor but AIBU to think that contact time is for my ex to see DC and not his parents?

@Neodymium he didn't want me to have DC at all. He denied paternity and we had to have a DNA test through CMS.

That's why he's not on the BC. He's just a prick basically.

Have asked him quite a few times since if he'd like to go on it but he's not made any moves to do so, doesn't seem overly bothered!

There were abuse issues in the relationship unfortunately, I'd had to call the police several times and while I was pregnant too.

Which makes it all the more stupid I ever went back but that's abuse for you.

I've only ever seen him be good with DC though so no concerns about him as such, more his parents as his mum has already had my DC injured on her watch.

If he was asking for DC every other weekend then fine, but he's not he's asking for his parents.

He does think he's very, very special and his job is an exception. He views himself as a bit of a celebrity in a sense.

He would absolutely take me to court and the family have plenty of money to do so.

I don't want to stop him seeing our DC was just trying to work out where I'd stand with his demands as I want best for her.

This sounds fair, but I just don't see him driving 1.5-2hrs to have her for tea, or even to take her over night then drop her back at nursery the next day.

He's very selfish and would see the driving as a massive inconvenience to him.

If he has what he wants which is his parents doing his running around, that would suit him more.

They are under 11.

Really useful info, thank you.

That’s awkward and embarrassing him thinking that about himself! If he goes down the court route, then the judges response to his alleged “celebrity status” and being different should be amusing at least

Oh no, l totally see where you are coming from about wanting what is best for her. You shouldn’t be dancing to his tune all the time.

I will send you a PM about my DP's situation.

When did this absolute prince of a man last see his child? He clearly doesn’t give one single solitary shit about her or you.

His mum is the only one who seemingly wants to see her, so tell him his parents are welcome to visit you at a prearranged time for a set number of hours if they want to see her.

Get your CMS claim in and then don’t contact him again. Leave him to it.

Last saw her around 4 weeks ago.

This is sort of where I'm coming from... in 1.5 years his only contact with her has really be through me when I was making the effort, he's got no drive to do anything himself.

In 1.5 years he's got no toys, no baby equipment, no clothing for her? He's got not a single piece of baby anything in his house.

If he was keen to be a Dad he surely would have done something by now.

I've never stopped him and have all the proof from the beginning. Even before he asked for a second chance I regularly asked him "let me know if you would like to see DD and we will arrange". He never did.

I'm happy that he seems to want some more contact with her now in a sense but at the same time it seems like it's just for his mum/dad and he's just going to carry on the same.

And @AzureSheep, in the last 4 weeks he had around a week (6 days I think it was!) actually off work... I know this because he told me. But he made absolutely zero plans to see our DC.

That has also pissed me off but when I asked him (politely) he said that his personal time is his personal time and it's a break from work not "babysitting" for me.

Earlier in the year I felt very hurt where he ended up with a random week off work last minute, instead of coming to spend time with DC and help me (I was working and couldn't just take time off like that), he went off by himself on an £££ last minute holiday abroad because he "really" needed a break.

IMO opinion he's not that interested in actively parenting.

I've never stopped him and have all the proof from the beginning. Even before he asked for a second chance I regularly asked him "let me know if you would like to see DD and we will arrange". He never did.

Please ensure all your communication like this is in writing preferably email going forward. If he rings you then send him a short email within 24 hours on what was said and/or agreed. While he is still likely to get a Court Order if he makes up a sob story but when he refuses to turn up and if he takes you back to Court he will find it difficult to get the order amended.

Also make notes of when his mother comes round and simply don't mention her unless you are specifically asked about her by the Court if it gets to that stage. Remember any agreements with him are for him to see his child, his parents are adults so old enough to sort out their own arrangements to see their grandchild with either of you.

Earlier in the year I felt very hurt where he ended up with a random week off work last minute, instead of coming to spend time with DC and help me (I was working and couldn't just take time off like that), he went off by himself on an £££ last minute holiday abroad because he "really" needed a break.

Never phrase the time he spends with his child as helping you regardless of the fact he doesn't want to parent. (I would be tempted to tell him he can't babysit his own child but you actually want his crap attitude in writing.)

Ah Banana, he sounds like a terrible excuse of a man. If he really did want more contact with your dc then he absolutely would have made an effort when he had time off. I think he’s just doing this so that when someone asks him why he doesn’t see his child he can paint you as the evil crazy ex who won’t allow him contact. Then he never has to take responsibility for anything. As sad as it is, I think you need to try and let go of the idea of your dc having any meaningful relationship with him.

The problem is, you’ve come on to ask questions. People are giving you the answers and you’re arguing with them about their (legally correct) answers being unfair.

Is it unfair? Yes.
Is there anything you can do about it? No.

Mothers are ALWAYS disadvantaged. Can’t order a man to take responsibility, but also have to allow them contact as that’s in the child’s best interests. So if they decide all they’ve got to offer is 2 hours on a Tuesday evening, you can’t say F you, parent properly or not at all, because it is seen as being in the child’s interest to have any contact (unless they are a danger to them and the threshold for that is disturbingly high).

In fact you run the risk of the court siding more with him because, although you are understandably frustrated, some of what you’re suggesting means he really can’t win.

His working hours are his working hours.

He will not be in a position to dictate them. Even super rich celebrities have varied contractual obligations (promoting round the world, filming on location etc). That’s the way the business you say he’s in works - the same as the military.

So yes, ad hoc can be ordered and likely will be. As far in advance as the judge deems is reasonable, based on evidence he is provided regarding the details of his work obligations.

However, you don’t want ad hoc. You want fixed times (understandable).

So here’s the standoff. He’s trying to be flexible and give what you’re looking for. What you’re looking for isn’t possible with his job BUT he can offer consistency using his parents as backup. You know, the same way you do with your nursery?

You have a young child in FT nursery until 5/6 but are also saying the child should only be looked after by her parent. The same logic applies to you.

On another note, whether you like it or not her contact and relationship with her biological father will always be prioritised by court over her relationship with half siblings. It’s also not for your older son to decide, or have an opinion on, who looks after his sister. That’s for her parents to decide.

Reading your post, you come across as angry, frustrated and obstinate. This isn’t saying your anger and frustration aren’t understandable but the law doesn’t care about them. They care about the law, and what’s deemed to be in your child’s best interests. Your mixed messages just appear that you’re trying to frustrate contact (while saying you’re not) and that never goes down well with a judge.

If you were a baby wearing SAHM who was breastfeeding and had never left the little one for more than 1.5 seconds then (although you’d still be forced to hand them over for contact) it wouldn’t seem as though you’ve got double standards and are being awkward. But this baby has gone to nursery FT and long term so you can’t say you want first refusal either as you aren’t giving him that (again court doesn’t care if your nursery money is wasted). If you get first refusal so will he - so in reality that’s him getting what he wants. Any day your child is at nursery, you’d have to allow him to have them instead, if he’s available. Vice versa, if he’s not there, his parents can’t have them unless you say you don’t want to. That’s actually the ad hoc arrangement he’s asked for and you’ve refused. So you only want it on your terms and not reciprocal ones and this is where it will get ugly in front of a judge because it’s glaringly obvious the holes in your argument, even to someone not trained in looking for holes in someone’s argument as their entire livelihood…

No question he sounds like an arse (and of course baby isn’t going to enrol in 2 schools). But parental alienation is one of the big things at the moment and you definitely don’t want to find yourself on the wrong side of that allegation.

@Bedroomdilemmas113 I'm not arguing and I appreciate everyone's input. If I seem frustrated it's just because I feel it's unfair.

I think ideally for me if ExDp has fixed days with DD and has her every other weekend, it would be my wish that most of the time that it's with him. But I see that me wishing for things doesn't mean it will happen. I just think that it would be better for DC but okay.

The comment about my son- he doesn't run my life that comment was because he saw his sister get hurt and he was concerned, that's all.

I think the wanting "ad hoc" and "flexibility" because of his "special" job is just him trying to throw his weight around and be a little controlling- I don't think he actually wants to do this even if it were possible as he's been offered plenty of flexibility when I was on maternity leave, he's never taken me up on it. He's never even asked me once, at all, when he's had spontaneous time off to have DC... he just does want he wants.

I am also approaching this from perspective of having been in family court before with my first husband (we do get on very well now actually for context).

Let's say I am a nurse, I am a shift worker. What I asked for in court was to give ex husband my rota which I get 90 days ahead. It was no question we were going 50/50 child arrangement as we live 10 mins from each other, but I wanted to have the children on my days off and early shift days.

I was told no, and that my job is my problem, I will have to ask for fixed days and it's not fair on my ex husband to have to work around my shifts and he's entitled to fixed days every week and stability so he can plan his life. Judge also said that the stability was better for the children.

So I'm just querying being told that it is possible for my ExDp to get an ad hoc agreement if he goes for this.

I think in simple terms OP

• your ex will not get "ad hoc" when he wants it so it will be a fixed arrangement
• you can't dictate what happens during his time so, if his parents are minding DC then that's really up to him you can't object unless there's some safeguarding concern (just being worried that parents are old and doddery isn't enough)
• you won't be expect to drive DC to him (given you've not moved away) and you have other DC to care for so it will be up to him to pick up etc
• you are entitled to maintenance and you should take this opportunity to formalise that once you've got these arrangements in place

Personally I'd just get this all done formally and then see if he turns up. If he's as flaky as he sounds he may not always come over and pick up on his time and his suggestion of two schools does not actually work ! So that won't happen for starters.

But don't be scared of court. You just say you're happy foe there to be contact and you'll make the DC available for the contact and it just needs to be on a schedule because that's in the best interests of the child and also the only workable solution given your other DC.

TBH i'd just smile and nod and say yes ad hoc is fine as long as he understands that if you have made plans already that they come first as you don't want to mess your little one around.
Then if it suits you agree at the time and if it doesn't just say no.
He's not going to take you to court so just ignore all that.
It's not in your interests to go to court as the only person who has to abide by the order is you! (been there done that and lots of what people have written here is not my experience eg you could very well be told to do all the travel as i was)
Keep written notes
Apply for CM
Good Luck!

This sounds like a different situation in as much as I assume each of you would have had to arrange childcare around your jobs so I therefore assume he would have objected as couldn’t have ad hoc childcare arrangements? Each was responsible for arranging childcare in their 50% of the time and therefore on a practical level this wasn’t fair on him. Because it meant by default you WOULDN’T have them when your shifts changed and if he didn’t have childcare that could cover those periods it wouldn’t work?

Whereas in this current situation childcare is sorted regardless. You have nursery place that you need, and he has childcare by way of his parents should he need it in his time.

But in any event he’s offered you stable and fixed days when you requested them. On those days childcare will be his responsibility. As yours is with your older children and vice versa for your ex husband.

Ex has honestly just turned nasty, I have agreed to every other weekend in principle but said she needs to build up to it, go in the day times for a bit then build to overnight. She's only been to his and his parents house a few times each!
I'd think if I am still breastfeeding we can build up to her staying overnight for the weekend by age 2, he's calling me ridiculous, embarrassing, childish etc when I've been perfectly nice to him about it, also said I'm obstructive as I have 2 holidays book from now and to November (a short one and then a week long one, no big deal surely) and apparently I've done it on purpose to obstruct contact.
I've had the time booked off for ages, I can evidence this with work, he's not shown any interest in him (his parents) having DD until the last couple of weeks, so I've just been planning my life alone as that's how it's been.
I honestly think he's just looking for an excuse to fight me and argue.

He is just looking for a fight. You don't have to justify anything to him. Look up 'grey rock' as a technique to manage your response.