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JKR being uncharacteristically quiet

1000 replies

Jdugsgsgwyd · 17/08/2024 14:42

Anyone else noticed since the news that JKR is being sued by Imane Khelif she's been very quiet, unless I'm mistaken she's hasn't tweeted at all in about a week.

and hasn't responded at all to the legal action being taken against her. This is very unlike her, I'm thinking she's been advised by her lawyers to keep quiet. Anyone else think she might have put her foot in it this time?

OP posts:
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16
Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/08/2024 17:26

Biology isn't simple. The more biologists study the way the human body works, the clearer this becomes. However, let's not forget that human beings are mammals and it would be extremely odd if we were the only mammal species who couldn't reliably tell on sight, or within a few seconds of watching another human walk, which sex that person is. That's point 1.

Returning to the science, biologists and doctors have stated that disorders of sexual development (DSD) can take many forms but almost all are clearly associated with one sex rather than the other.

So if IK has 5-alpha Reductase Deficiency (not confirmed but would fit the facts in the public domain) that would mean that IK is male and went through male puberty, in spite of having been registered as female at birth. This is extremely rare but not unknown.

If the parents of a newborn can access good paediatric care for a baby born with ambiguous looking genitals, this mistake at registration would not happen (nowadays) because there would be DNA and other tests to find out exactly what was going on, and the baby would be registered with the correct sex. This is the kindest and most sensible thing for the child because at puberty the child's sex becomes unmistakeable.

In cases where the parents are unable to get that level of care, they may be advised or may decide to register the baby as whichever sex seems the likeliest. There is a strong prejudice in some cultures against raising a child as a boy if there isn't a normal looking penis and testicles.

It is a known fact that sports talent spotters look for youngsters with this condition because since the IOC stopped testing for sex, these athletes with F on their passports have often been able to qualify for female teams. The best known example of this is the 800m final at the Rio Olympics where all three of the medallists are now known to have DSDs. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/67367157

It would no longer be possible for athletes with that DSD to compete in women's athletics, and that's right. It's nothing to do with femininity or masculinity. It's to do with having a male body rather than a female body.

As I've already said on this thread, ultimately this is down to the IOC's idiotic decision to stop sex testing. It's no more degrading or humiliating than any of the other tests athletes have to go through. I was taken aback to learn that when they provide a urine sample, to be sure it really is coming straight from their body and not from another (drug-free) person's body, the tester has to observe the athlete urinating. Compared with that, giving a cheek swab is absolutely nothing. It needs to be universal, just as we do criminal records checks on everybody, not just the ones that somebody subjectively thinks look dodgy.

Caster Semenya smiling after a 5000m race in Oregon 2022.

Caster Semenya Q&A: Who is she and why is her case important?

With Caster Semenya back in the news, BBC Sport looks at why her case is important.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/67367157

RedToothBrush · 17/08/2024 17:26

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 17:19

I'm not discussing whether she has a DSD, I'm discussing whether she has a vagina as that was the question asked. Even if she has a DSD we can still be pretty confident she has a vagina for all the reasons outlined above.

Not necessarily.

Perhaps you would like to Google this.

It's not difficult.

Tandora · 17/08/2024 17:26

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 17:24

I'm sorry, but your side are really really not offering calm logic and facts.

Quite.

Rymeswithpunt · 17/08/2024 17:26

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 17:24

I'm sorry, but your side are really really not offering calm logic and facts.

there's 14 pages now of women explaining the binary nature of sex in mammals, disorders of sexual development and woman's biology.
And still round and round we go...

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 17:27

BeyondOlympicLevelProcrastinator · 17/08/2024 17:23

I literally explained the reality of the genitalia for a child with 5ARD above, it did not include a vagina.

Google the Prader scale, look at the pictures for yourself if you need to visualise it rather than read a description.

Ffs debating this is like you're invisible at times!

Once again a person who not only has concluded that Khelif definitely has a DSD, they've decided they can even diagnose which one. We can all see you, it's just natural to want to look away when someone is busy publicly pulling stuff directly out their arsehole.

Rymeswithpunt · 17/08/2024 17:27

RedToothBrush · 17/08/2024 17:26

Not necessarily.

Perhaps you would like to Google this.

It's not difficult.

I think freedom is trying to say the boxer has a vulva. He dosent, but if he has a dsd it may have looked like he had a vulva when he was a baby

SiobhanSharpe · 17/08/2024 17:29

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 17:19

I'm not discussing whether she has a DSD, I'm discussing whether she has a vagina as that was the question asked. Even if she has a DSD we can still be pretty confident she has a vagina for all the reasons outlined above.

It seems that XY people with a certain DSD can indeed have a 'vaginal pouch' which does not lead anywhere or connect to another organ, (so not exactly a vagina) but possibly also a micropenis which can be mis-characterised as a larger clitoris.
(Until the individual goes through male puberty when the penis develops more
normally.)

Rymeswithpunt · 17/08/2024 17:29

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 17:27

Once again a person who not only has concluded that Khelif definitely has a DSD, they've decided they can even diagnose which one. We can all see you, it's just natural to want to look away when someone is busy publicly pulling stuff directly out their arsehole.

your having a go at people explaining it to you? and then say no one has explained it.
what do you get out of this?

RedToothBrush · 17/08/2024 17:30

Rymeswithpunt · 17/08/2024 17:27

I think freedom is trying to say the boxer has a vulva. He dosent, but if he has a dsd it may have looked like he had a vulva when he was a baby

Why are we listening to someone who doesn't know the difference between a vulva and a vagina?

I mean cos they are going to the authority when there is a genetic abnormality in this area, when they don't know what it should look like and the names for various parts in normal development...

😂

Dygger · 17/08/2024 17:30

Once again a person who not only has concluded that Khelif definitely has a DSD, they've decided they can even diagnose which one. We can all see you, it's just natural to want to look away when someone is busy publicly pulling stuff directly out their arsehole.

All IK would need to do to put all this to rest would be to have a cheek swab taken and analysed by a reputable laboratory and publish the results. It could have all been over and done with last week. What possible reason would IK have for not doing that?

vivainsomnia · 17/08/2024 17:32

I hope IK is successful with her lawsuit.

Nobody has the right to judge her for her sex or expect her to divulge very personal information to strangers.

She did nothing wrong at all. She was deemed a woman by the regulations that govern the Olympics. She didn't break rules or did anything illegal.

JKR think much to highly of her importance in this world. She might be a good writer, she might be extra rich, but neither give her the right to discriminate on the basis of sex.

She deserves to get off her pedestal.

iamtheblcksheep · 17/08/2024 17:32

I’m very much looking forward to the results of the chromosome test as part of this lawsuit.

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 17:32

Rymeswithpunt · 17/08/2024 17:26

there's 14 pages now of women explaining the binary nature of sex in mammals, disorders of sexual development and woman's biology.
And still round and round we go...

I genuinely burst out laughing at this because you have got to be reading this thread in a parallel universe. Nobody is "explaining the binary nature of sex in mammals" and they're definitely not doing so calmly and logically, this thread is full of lies, fallacies, misinformation, people making unevidenced statements, people mistaking their opinions for facts, and people absolutely resolutely refusing to address the FACT that individuals with DSDs prove that biological sex is not a simple binary, to the point they have to completely contradict all their previous arguments about how sex is assigned at birth and which sex has which genitals in order to make it even slightly work. It's a clown car. Except less amusing.

Dygger · 17/08/2024 17:34

It seems that XY people with a certain DSD can indeed have a 'vaginal pouch' which does not lead anywhere or connect to another organ, (so not exactly a vagina) but possibly also a micropenis which can be mis-characterised as a larger clitoris.
(Until the individual goes through male puberty when the penis develops more
normally.)

I think we all saw IK fishing in his boxing shorts to adjust his tackle fairly clearly on a couple of occasions. I presume the IOC has suppressed the videos that were going round but they'll be on Twitter somewhere. Hands up all the women who've had to rearrange their clits.

Tandora · 17/08/2024 17:34

vivainsomnia · 17/08/2024 17:32

I hope IK is successful with her lawsuit.

Nobody has the right to judge her for her sex or expect her to divulge very personal information to strangers.

She did nothing wrong at all. She was deemed a woman by the regulations that govern the Olympics. She didn't break rules or did anything illegal.

JKR think much to highly of her importance in this world. She might be a good writer, she might be extra rich, but neither give her the right to discriminate on the basis of sex.

She deserves to get off her pedestal.

♥️

Tandora · 17/08/2024 17:35

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 17:32

I genuinely burst out laughing at this because you have got to be reading this thread in a parallel universe. Nobody is "explaining the binary nature of sex in mammals" and they're definitely not doing so calmly and logically, this thread is full of lies, fallacies, misinformation, people making unevidenced statements, people mistaking their opinions for facts, and people absolutely resolutely refusing to address the FACT that individuals with DSDs prove that biological sex is not a simple binary, to the point they have to completely contradict all their previous arguments about how sex is assigned at birth and which sex has which genitals in order to make it even slightly work. It's a clown car. Except less amusing.

👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻 this says it all.

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 17:36

Dygger · 17/08/2024 17:30

Once again a person who not only has concluded that Khelif definitely has a DSD, they've decided they can even diagnose which one. We can all see you, it's just natural to want to look away when someone is busy publicly pulling stuff directly out their arsehole.

All IK would need to do to put all this to rest would be to have a cheek swab taken and analysed by a reputable laboratory and publish the results. It could have all been over and done with last week. What possible reason would IK have for not doing that?

I'm repeating myself here, but I can think of two good reasons:

  1. The results of people's medical tests are private and no amount of bullying from billionaires should force them to have to make them public.

  2. Khelif is from a very conservative country where suggestions she could be male are at best very socially damaging and at worst could land her in legal trouble (since it is illegal in Algeria to live as the opposite sex). As such if she does have a DSD releasing this information could put her in genuine danger.

spannasaurus · 17/08/2024 17:39

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 17:36

I'm repeating myself here, but I can think of two good reasons:

  1. The results of people's medical tests are private and no amount of bullying from billionaires should force them to have to make them public.

  2. Khelif is from a very conservative country where suggestions she could be male are at best very socially damaging and at worst could land her in legal trouble (since it is illegal in Algeria to live as the opposite sex). As such if she does have a DSD releasing this information could put her in genuine danger.

Do you really think that no one in Algeria knows what DSDs are? Maybe the general public are unaware but the medical professions will know what they are and I presume that government officials are capable of understanding what they are.

DialSquare · 17/08/2024 17:41

So let me get this straight? According the TWAW believers, Transwomen have been incorrectly assigned as male at birth but when evidence is pointing to the rare time someone has actually been incorrectly assigned the wrong sex at birth, those same people are saying that as IK was assumed female at birth, he most definitely is female?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/08/2024 17:42

Tandora · 17/08/2024 17:34

♥️

That looks very like an ink black heart on my screen. Grin

I hope that JKR is having a good holiday with her family and/or also finishing The Hallmarked Man, which I am very much looking forward to reading.

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 17:43

spannasaurus · 17/08/2024 17:39

Do you really think that no one in Algeria knows what DSDs are? Maybe the general public are unaware but the medical professions will know what they are and I presume that government officials are capable of understanding what they are.

Yes, I'm sure officials in a country where it's illegal to be gay or transgender would absolutely be sympathetic and liberal towards an individual with a DSD. Absolutely no reason to doubt that or worry at all.

Jfc some people are naive.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/08/2024 17:44

DialSquare · 17/08/2024 17:41

So let me get this straight? According the TWAW believers, Transwomen have been incorrectly assigned as male at birth but when evidence is pointing to the rare time someone has actually been incorrectly assigned the wrong sex at birth, those same people are saying that as IK was assumed female at birth, he most definitely is female?

Yes, biology counts for nothing. It's all about perception and feelings. (Until we get to surrogacy and other fertility matters, of course, when mysteriously which sex a human is starts to matter very much indeed.)

spannasaurus · 17/08/2024 17:47

FreedomDogs · 17/08/2024 17:43

Yes, I'm sure officials in a country where it's illegal to be gay or transgender would absolutely be sympathetic and liberal towards an individual with a DSD. Absolutely no reason to doubt that or worry at all.

Jfc some people are naive.

You don't think they can understand the difference between a medical condition and being gay/trans. None of them?

Errors · 17/08/2024 17:47

Errors · 17/08/2024 17:12

It’s not convenient, it’s a fact. If someone looks at your genitals when you’re born, and says “penis - it’s a boy” or “vagina - it’s a girl” in the vast vast majority of instances, they will be right.

But not necessarily if that individual has a DSD and their sex is incorrectly assigned.

I do NOT believe that ‘assigned male at birth’ actual XY chromosomed men can become women.

Sorry, I let the side down and used ‘vagina’ here incorrectly. My apologies, I shall go and stand in the naughty corner 🤦‍♀️

Tandora · 17/08/2024 17:47

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/08/2024 17:44

Yes, biology counts for nothing. It's all about perception and feelings. (Until we get to surrogacy and other fertility matters, of course, when mysteriously which sex a human is starts to matter very much indeed.)

Nobody is saying biology “counts for nothing”. Biology is important. It’s also complicated.

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