Page 5 | To refuse to see a health visitor?

silveratone · 2024-08-16T12:46:15+00:00

I'm expecting my 3rd and really don't want the health vision snooping around. Am I able to refuse this? Has anyone refused? I'm happy to go to weigh in clinics and see them I just don't want them in my home.

cocobeaner · 17/08/2024 14:27

HelenWheels · 17/08/2024 09:46

i think you will be judged for refusing. rightly or wrongly, it will say say on your notes
just go with the flow
you are unlikely to have many visits

So what though? Even if they write something on my 'notes' for refusing the service, what difference does that make to anything?

RosesAndHellebores · 17/08/2024 14:39

Movingonup313 · 17/08/2024 10:09

Its essentially a free service that can lead to signposting or support for any issues. There are many many good and experienced hv out there. Like all occupations, sadly, some are not so good or experienced. Id let the HV in, have a chat and if advice is contrary to what you think is the right thing to do - say thank you but make a note not to follow it. Some new parents have extreme difficulty and maybe dont realise it - its a good way for an outsider to see that and get help. Whilst I didnt personally have particularly helpful HV (advice was incredibly dated) I wouldnt refuse a visit. I wouldnt think 'refusing to co-operate/engage with services' is a positive record.

Actually, it isn't free. It's free at the point of delivery, funded by taxation paid the people.

In that context I think root and branch reform is required to ensure that valuable resources are not wasted. It's a huge amount of money to spend on qualified nurses (who do no nursing) to sit on sofas having chats. The Edinburgh Scale paperwork, for example, could be completed by an HCA before hospital discharge. Alternatively midwives should be assessing if a mother to be is potentially vulnerable and facilitating targeted care.

JLT24 · 17/08/2024 15:40

LovedFedAndNoonesDead · 17/08/2024 08:34

But it is a threat - who are they going to report parents who don’t want their input to? If a parent tells a HV that they no longer want or need their services then all that should happen is a note be made on their records that family have declined support. Obviously it’s a different scenario if SS are involved or there are existing concerns about a family - I’m talking about your average family.

I found the team down here were useless; they hassled me almost daily by phone before we were even discharged from hospital about coming to the house to do hearing tests when we had no planned discharge date and wouldn’t accept that we didn’t know when we’d be discharged; did not seem to know that premature babies should have their development checks done based on their due date not their actual birth date, so told me there were issues because they didn’t reach their 6 week targets when they should have been 5 days old; that I was told I should not be taking my twins out of the house (despite the neonatal outreach team saying it was absolutely fine so long as I want going to see people who were obviously unwell) and should stay home just in case the HV wanted to come and visit - but they would never give a time when they would come beyond xx day sometime between 9-4 - so they expected us to stay in all day for them to come or worse, another HV would call me either the day before a booked appointment or on the day of an appointment, to change it because the person phoning wanted to come instead of our named HV.

When they did come to the house they would turn up with students without asking if we were happy for them to come; wanted to put their scales on a mat in the porch right by the front door to weigh the babies rather than go through to the kitchen and put the scales on the table or the floor away from unnecessary draughts! They tried telling me that the twins HAD to have a 3-4 month developmental check despite there being no check at that age on the schedule or in the red book.

That was the last straw and I told them to stop bothering us and that we were refusing to engage with their voluntary service any further!! The person we told tried saying she was going to report us for refusing medical care but, when challenged, couldn’t tell me who they were going to report me to or what medical care I was actually refusing - oh, and where we live, the HVs work for the council not health services and can’t arrange medical referrals they just tell you to call the GP surgery if you have any concerns!!

Thankfully for us, they did leave us alone after that and then Covid came along a few months later and HVs stopped all face to face contact; they sent out forms for 2-3 year checks but we put them in the recycling and heard nothing more; since moving to another area 2 1/2 years ago, we’ve not had any contact from the team in this area!

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Sorry you had a bad experience.

The process is - firstly it’s reported to a senior HV who will try to contact the family again and arrange a visit. If a visit is turned down/un contactable it’s then reported to the child’s GP. It is then the responsibility of the GP to make further enquires as to whether there are any safeguarding concerns and whether a mandatory safeguarding visit is required. This is then regularly reviewed by the GP until the child reaches the end of the HV journey. It’s not an empty threat but simply the process that a HV must follow.

JLT24 · 17/08/2024 15:45

RosesAndHellebores · 17/08/2024 14:39

Actually, it isn't free. It's free at the point of delivery, funded by taxation paid the people.

In that context I think root and branch reform is required to ensure that valuable resources are not wasted. It's a huge amount of money to spend on qualified nurses (who do no nursing) to sit on sofas having chats. The Edinburgh Scale paperwork, for example, could be completed by an HCA before hospital discharge. Alternatively midwives should be assessing if a mother to be is potentially vulnerable and facilitating targeted care.

Show quote history

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head as to why there are so many negative opinions about a HV. Their job is not to simply sit on a sofa and have a chat. Its far more than that. In a straightforward case there might be basic simple interventions because that is all that is required. In more complex cases it is a lot more than a chat, where a medical background and at least five years
of training is required. People undermine HV’s in a way they wouldn’t a GP simply because they don’t understand the level of their responsibilities.

leopardski · 17/08/2024 15:48

I would see the HV, mainly as they keep an eye on weight and they’ll do the ‘milestone’ checks too.
My HV team were absolute angels though, I really enjoyed spending time with them they helped me a lot, especially mentally.
Never once snooped around the house either!

Screamingabdabz · 17/08/2024 16:10

JaneDoeHere · 17/08/2024 08:42

HV are trained nurses. If you’re worried about “snooping” it’s clear you have something to hide. Just let them do their job.

Agreed. They are not there to ‘snoop’ - their role is to assess health and welfare. If your life or home is in such a mess that it’s not fit for a health professional to see it, why have you brought children into it?

Anitapu · 17/08/2024 16:28

Why wouldnt you see a HV?

isnt it best to just have the baby checks done and dusted. Its more convienient if they actually visit you at home. Surely its SS that are the ones to snoop.

bluesheetsq · 17/08/2024 16:41

What the vast majority of you don't understand is that if you're a generally well functioning family, capable of raising your children safely with little input, the HV ain't really there for you.

The HV service IS vital for supporting and safeguarding the most vulnerable in society.

the privilege of the people on here saying 'I found my HV pointless' well, fucking good!!! I'm glad thats how you feel because that means your kids are probably alright!

you lot couldn't imagine in your wildest dreams the situations some children exist within. They suffer endless days of misery, abuse and neglect, that social care say doesn't meet the threshold. They are who need a HV. Not you.

RosesAndHellebores · 17/08/2024 16:50

JLT24 · 17/08/2024 15:40

Sorry you had a bad experience.

The process is - firstly it’s reported to a senior HV who will try to contact the family again and arrange a visit. If a visit is turned down/un contactable it’s then reported to the child’s GP. It is then the responsibility of the GP to make further enquires as to whether there are any safeguarding concerns and whether a mandatory safeguarding visit is required. This is then regularly reviewed by the GP until the child reaches the end of the HV journey. It’s not an empty threat but simply the process that a HV must follow.

Show quote history

So why don't they explain this openly and clearly to parents?

My HV was so incompetent (and disorganised and lazy), that I contacted the Head HV herself to find out what their role was. Head HV told me one of their roles was to make sure mothers talked to their babies enough to develop speech. She also acknowledged my request and confirmed it was my right to opt put. Then she got another HV to start phoning me up. Result, formal complaint that was upheld. It was frankly offensive from top to bottom.

I might have engaged had a mutually convenient appointment been made, had the HV turned up on time and been able to clearly explain her role whilst exercising some care and empathy rather than ticking boxes on forms.

In the event I was so riled about the talking to baby enough comments (not even the baby) that I read my son the Iliad and the Odyssey when he was six weeks old. I guess a positive arising from it was that he brought us home a first in Classics from Oxford!

At about the same time the Head of the HV Association wrote in The Times that the role of the HV was to teach ignorant mothers the three C's. Cooking, Communication and Cleanliness. The entire shooting match was unacceptable. It appeared toxic from the top down and my experience led me to the conclusion that Health Visiting was a very expensive job relation scheme for nurses who preferred paperwork and working 9-5 than practical nursing. A complete waste of resources.

Pllystyrene · 17/08/2024 17:25

I've just had my 3rd and the HV will only see us twice this time. Once was to drop the red book off and once on day 10 to do a few checks. Other than that they just tell you to phone them if you need them. Visits were less than 20 minutes and I was just told to trust my judgement. From the other comments it sounds like it's more hassle to not see them 🤷‍♀️

LovedFedAndNoonesDead · 17/08/2024 17:51

JLT24 · 17/08/2024 15:40

Sorry you had a bad experience.

The process is - firstly it’s reported to a senior HV who will try to contact the family again and arrange a visit. If a visit is turned down/un contactable it’s then reported to the child’s GP. It is then the responsibility of the GP to make further enquires as to whether there are any safeguarding concerns and whether a mandatory safeguarding visit is required. This is then regularly reviewed by the GP until the child reaches the end of the HV journey. It’s not an empty threat but simply the process that a HV must follow.

Show quote history

I can categorically tell you that, after telling the useless HV team that we were done with them and to leave us alone, we’ve had absolutely no contact with the service apart from receiving the ASQ forms in the post just before the twins 2nd birthday; there was no follow up to see if we had received them or completed them. In fact, we had withdrawn our consent for the HV service to process our family data so they shouldn’t have sent the forms out to start with. Because they are employed by the council here and not the NHS here they have no access to medical records and even if they want you to have an appointment they can’t book it, you have to do it.

When we moved to a new town and registered with a new GP surgery, we simply put that we have had no HV input since November 2019 and no one has ever queried it. The same when they were registered with nursery/preschool and now ready to start school or have had to go to hospital either due to one of them being unwell or when one had preplanned surgery - again, no one has ever queried it, just written “none” in the relevant box on the admissions paperwork.

But I maintain that telling any family who do not wish to engage any further with this voluntary service that they will be reported (to whoever) is a threat which is deliberately made to scare them into continuing with the visits against their wishes in fear of potential consequences but when asked who they’re going to report you to they have no answer!!

JLT24 · 17/08/2024 18:03

LovedFedAndNoonesDead · 17/08/2024 17:51

I can categorically tell you that, after telling the useless HV team that we were done with them and to leave us alone, we’ve had absolutely no contact with the service apart from receiving the ASQ forms in the post just before the twins 2nd birthday; there was no follow up to see if we had received them or completed them. In fact, we had withdrawn our consent for the HV service to process our family data so they shouldn’t have sent the forms out to start with. Because they are employed by the council here and not the NHS here they have no access to medical records and even if they want you to have an appointment they can’t book it, you have to do it.

When we moved to a new town and registered with a new GP surgery, we simply put that we have had no HV input since November 2019 and no one has ever queried it. The same when they were registered with nursery/preschool and now ready to start school or have had to go to hospital either due to one of them being unwell or when one had preplanned surgery - again, no one has ever queried it, just written “none” in the relevant box on the admissions paperwork.

But I maintain that telling any family who do not wish to engage any further with this voluntary service that they will be reported (to whoever) is a threat which is deliberately made to scare them into continuing with the visits against their wishes in fear of potential consequences but when asked who they’re going to report you to they have no answer!!

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It’s not for the purpose of scaring people whatsoever but for safeguarding purposes. You obviously haven’t been contacted as you’re not deemed a safeguarding risk. But you will/will have been on the GP’s register as having no HV input so they can review your case (that is assuming the GP is competent and following the correct protocol).

JLT24 · 17/08/2024 18:05

RosesAndHellebores · 17/08/2024 16:50

So why don't they explain this openly and clearly to parents?

My HV was so incompetent (and disorganised and lazy), that I contacted the Head HV herself to find out what their role was. Head HV told me one of their roles was to make sure mothers talked to their babies enough to develop speech. She also acknowledged my request and confirmed it was my right to opt put. Then she got another HV to start phoning me up. Result, formal complaint that was upheld. It was frankly offensive from top to bottom.

I might have engaged had a mutually convenient appointment been made, had the HV turned up on time and been able to clearly explain her role whilst exercising some care and empathy rather than ticking boxes on forms.

In the event I was so riled about the talking to baby enough comments (not even the baby) that I read my son the Iliad and the Odyssey when he was six weeks old. I guess a positive arising from it was that he brought us home a first in Classics from Oxford!

At about the same time the Head of the HV Association wrote in The Times that the role of the HV was to teach ignorant mothers the three C's. Cooking, Communication and Cleanliness. The entire shooting match was unacceptable. It appeared toxic from the top down and my experience led me to the conclusion that Health Visiting was a very expensive job relation scheme for nurses who preferred paperwork and working 9-5 than practical nursing. A complete waste of resources.

Edited

Show quote history

I’m sure many people can recall instances of dealing with incompetent medical staff, but it’s quite frankly ridiculous to tar them all with the same brush and/or to pretend to know the ins and outs of an entire profession based on a limited context.

ADHDHDHDHD · 17/08/2024 18:37

bluesheetsq · 17/08/2024 16:41

What the vast majority of you don't understand is that if you're a generally well functioning family, capable of raising your children safely with little input, the HV ain't really there for you.

The HV service IS vital for supporting and safeguarding the most vulnerable in society.

the privilege of the people on here saying 'I found my HV pointless' well, fucking good!!! I'm glad thats how you feel because that means your kids are probably alright!

you lot couldn't imagine in your wildest dreams the situations some children exist within. They suffer endless days of misery, abuse and neglect, that social care say doesn't meet the threshold. They are who need a HV. Not you.

Absolutely agree with this. It is basically safeguarding the baby. The HVs might not all be brilliant but they see hundreds and thousands of babies and can spot when something isn't right.

GodspeedJune · 17/08/2024 18:40

JLT24 · 17/08/2024 15:40

Sorry you had a bad experience.

The process is - firstly it’s reported to a senior HV who will try to contact the family again and arrange a visit. If a visit is turned down/un contactable it’s then reported to the child’s GP. It is then the responsibility of the GP to make further enquires as to whether there are any safeguarding concerns and whether a mandatory safeguarding visit is required. This is then regularly reviewed by the GP until the child reaches the end of the HV journey. It’s not an empty threat but simply the process that a HV must follow.

Show quote history

Are you a HV? If so, you must be aware that this isn’t the policy nationwide. In my area there is no follow up by a senior HV once declined and it is not recorded on GP records. In lots of places it’s a council run service and they have no access to medical records to be able to inform GPs even if they wanted to.

You shouldn’t state it’s a formal policy when it certainly isn’t the case universally. Which is good as your take on it sounds rather draconian and certainly doesn’t indicate the optional nature of the service.

LovedFedAndNoonesDead · 17/08/2024 18:54

GodspeedJune · 17/08/2024 18:40

Are you a HV? If so, you must be aware that this isn’t the policy nationwide. In my area there is no follow up by a senior HV once declined and it is not recorded on GP records. In lots of places it’s a council run service and they have no access to medical records to be able to inform GPs even if they wanted to.

You shouldn’t state it’s a formal policy when it certainly isn’t the case universally. Which is good as your take on it sounds rather draconian and certainly doesn’t indicate the optional nature of the service.

Show quote history

Exactly my experience where we live - the HVs even tell you they can’t do any medical referrals as they don’t work for health services so, if their visits flag up an issue, they tell you to ring the GP to get an appointment and ask them to do any necessary referrals

RosesAndHellebores · 17/08/2024 19:08

JLT24 · 17/08/2024 18:05

I’m sure many people can recall instances of dealing with incompetent medical staff, but it’s quite frankly ridiculous to tar them all with the same brush and/or to pretend to know the ins and outs of an entire profession based on a limited context.

Edited

Show quote history

Indeed but at the same time the Head of the HV Association announced via The Times that their role was to teach ignorant mothers the three Cs: Cooking, Communication and Cleanliness.

It reveals quite a lot and sadly my HV had dirty hair and shoes, (cleanliness?), couldn't tell me her role (Communication?). I don't know about her cooking skills but as I was cordon bleu trained in Switzerland I doubt she had much to teach me.

As you were.

RosesAndHellebores · 17/08/2024 19:10

@JLT24 and for the record I don't pretend. After my formal complaint, I became the VC of my local CHC and an Executive Director of the PCT.

fliptopbin · 17/08/2024 19:13

My health visitor told me that it was a red flag that I had missed the pre birth appointment. I pointed out that I was rather busy that day. Giving birth!

Needmorelego · 17/08/2024 19:14

@RosesAndHellebores out of curiosity - when was this?
I really can't imagine it was recently.

Needmorelego · 17/08/2024 19:15

@RosesAndHellebores also what are CHC and PCT ?

bellocchild · 17/08/2024 19:45

Our HV, many decades ago, was a thorough-going bossy nuisance. She tried to bully us into 4-hour feeds, even for tiny hungry screaming babies, so they wouldn't get "spoilt" (ffs!). She also tried very hard to get us weaning far too early onto a commercial baby food which contained dried cow's milk, not ideal for cmpa babies. She went to pieces when she had her own baby. We tried not to snigger, but very hard.

Needmorelego · 17/08/2024 20:23

@bellocchild you can't compare an experience from "decades ago" though.
Methods change. Opinions change. Health and Safety changes.

bellocchild · 17/08/2024 21:27

Needmorelego · 17/08/2024 20:23

@bellocchild you can't compare an experience from "decades ago" though.
Methods change. Opinions change. Health and Safety changes.

Oh, I can! We had all the medical allergy information behind us, and she did not! My medical BIL had done the research.

Lavender14 · 17/08/2024 21:37

You can refuse if you want but tbh my health visitor has been an absolute godsend. I would be inclined to accept the service and if you don't feel you're gelling well with who they send out ask for someone else.

My hv never looked around my house, was lovely about my dog and cat, recognised PPA in me before I understood what was happening and was very supportive.