To think this is why the high street is failing?

[MiamiWindMachine]

I’m off on holiday in a couple of days, so thought I’d go up to the big shopping centre for a couple of last minute things.

In the massive H&M, all the tills bar one had been converted to self-service. The ones on the floor I was on were ALL closed. I went down to the lower floor and there was a huge queue, because no one could work out the machines. There was a step to remove security tags, and people couldn’t work out whether this was only for those plastic tags or if there was some flag on the barcodes for lower value items. Someone else was trying to process a return via these tills. When a member of staff eventually appeared, she confirmed returns could only be processed at a manned till. The customer pointed out that there were no manned tills. The staff member had no idea who to ask about it, then disappeared to find someone, so the queue was getting even longer.

I was on the way out about 15 minutes before closing time and went past M&S. I thought “I wonder if the Bureau de Change is still open” and went to check. The woman saw me approach and had a pained look on her face, saying “Arrgghh, I’ve just cashed uuuppp!” I was a bit taken aback, but said “Oh well, never mind. What time do you close, for future reference?” She then reluctantly admitted that she was supposed to be open until 8, but said “But I do start cashing up at around 7.30”. I was about to ask why when she started saying, “It’s fine; I’ll do it, I’ll do it”, like she was doing me a massive favour. I tried to pay on Revolut and she said “We can’t take those cards!”, as if it was somehow obvious. I asked about Apple Pay and she said, “No, it has to be a proper bank card or credit card”. I therefore went to pay with my credit card and she said, “You do know we have to charge a fee for these, don’t you?” I said I didn’t have a choice given she’d rejected two other payment methods.

I then went down to foods to grab a ready meal and some wine. I went to a manned till as I had alcohol and the girl said, “Oh, could you go to the self-service? It’s just that I’m closing this one”. I asked about the alcohol and she said, “I can approve that from here; it’s just that it’s easier for me”.

I feel like we’re constantly told in the media “Use it or lose it” re: the high street; how sad it would be if we lost the personal touch. From what I could see yesterday, one store has done everything possible to eliminate personal interaction, while in the other, the staff are more bothered about their convenience than the customers’. Is it any wonder that people would rather click a couple of buttons to get something delivered?

This (and all the other similar comments) is utterly irrelevant to the thread.

The company I worked for 10 years for didn't.

And your response is so enlightening.

Depends on the purchase.

If you are buying clothes and want assistance or want advice about the best new TV to buy, yes.

Going into the supermarket for some milk and eggs, no. I just want to pay and leave.

And I don't want to stand in a queue at the post office or Boots because they are the last bastion of Stalinist queuing either.

if you want interaction go to the library or smaller shops. Or find a hobby and join a club.

Was it M&S? If it wasn’t, irrelevant.

I had Saturday jobs in various jobs and they all expected you to stay beyond closing time and didn't pay for it. It was generally 10-15 minutes. And yes, you needed to be there at least 5 minutes before opening to put your stuff in your locker and be ready to get on the till/counter when the shop opened.

I had one job where I got in at 8 to stock shelves and finished at 4, so I did leave on time there, although only if I was relieved on the till in time (which did usually happen but I bet it doesn't now).

I stopped going into Matalan as you only got a manned till for cash and refunds. They changed it to all tills and a few weeks later went back to only one till and rest self service. 🙄

I only go in with cash now but there are always more people queuing for the manned till because the self service ones always seem to need assistance.

Shopping in Boots has become more trouble than it’s worth too I’ve found. Visited four branches in the last few months and had decent service in one of them. I’d received a load of those Advantage card points vouchers but they all had to be used in store, which is all well and good but the standards of in store experience now are rubbish.

Went to one store on a Sunday and they had one person serving and from what I could see three other members of staff not doing a great deal. The person being served and the shop assistant behind the till obviously knew each other and were having a catch-up. My friend was with me and the pair of us decided after ten minutes to forget it. We went to Superdrug just across the road and bought what we needed for less money and were served straight away.

I went to another branch I used to go to after work to pass the time and avoid being sat in traffic. It used to be very good for customer service. This time around I was waiting for well over 15 minutes trying to buy some aftershave. Went looking for someone to come and help and couldn’t find anyone. Eventually did - “can you find Sue instead?” I said I don’t know who Sue is because I don’t work in the store - where would I find her, what does she look like? She was huffy and said, “I’ll go and get her then!” This lady then arrived and was like Basil Fawlty when serving me.
It’ll be a long time before I return to that branch!

Re helpful/unhelpful staff, I've found town centre stores to be horrendous for grumpy, unhelpful, unpleasant staff.

I prefer to go to out of town retail parks, particularly designer outlets for clothes. Usually staff are so much happier, friendly and more helpful.

I wonder if the "typical" town centre experience makes town centre staff miserable, i.e. the drunks, beggars and druggies, nowhere to park, etc., and then the chavs coming in to the shops being entitled nasty twats, stealing stuff, etc.

It's clear that drivers prefer out of town retail for free/easy parking, fewer "undesirables", etc., simply based on the sheer numbers of cars at out of town places compared to city centre car parks, so I suspect that affects staff too.

Just a few weeks ago, went to a different designer outlet for the first time when we were holidaying in the UK and was really impressed at how clean and tidy it was, no drunks/druggies hanging around, and in nearly all the stores we went into, the staff were really friendly and helpful. We even had a good experience (first time ever) in the Subway for lunch when the people behind the counter actually spoke rather than grunted, and seemed happy to pass the time of day with customers, even some smiles (unheard of in Subway!).

A lot of town centres seem to attract the underclasses and "problem" people, so it's hardly surprising town centre workers aren't jumping for joy as they have to deal with them on a daily basis. At least most shoppers only have to run the gauntlet of the great unwashed and chavs only once a week or so!

You've clearly never worked in retail. I have. You cash up before closing time so that you can close on time. To expect the shop to serve you 30 seconds before closing time is what I meant by 'entitled' - if they do they are being helpful (which most shop assistants are when you can find one). Yes, they are open. No, you shouldn't spend half-an-hour shopping/making a return etc. which is going to take a long time and mean the shop worker misses her bus home (likely to be a bus - retail wages are not great) after she's been on her feet all day (shop managers are antsy about shop assistants sitting down even if there are no customers). Inconsiderate might be a better word - the same as leaving clothes that fall off hangers on the floor, because it's the shop assistants' job to pick them up. Yes, it is, but perhaps you dropped them, or caused them to fall, or you found them on the floor - considerate to put them back.
*second person 'you' meaning 'any customer' not you @MiamiWindMachine personally.

I used to work in retail - iirc full time staff got paid a little extra for cashing up time, part time staff didn't and you couldn't get the time back either, which was great when you had no supervisor on your dept at closing time, the supervisor who was supposed to come finish off the cashing up forgot, the different supervisor you went to find and who said they'd come over when they'd finished their dept also promptly forgot and you had to wait for everyone else to finish so someone from the office could come down...

And if people want to complain about staff cashing up early, I'm sure retail workers have plenty of stories of customers who wouldn't leave the damn store, even with the announcements of closing in ten minutes, staff going over and telling them the store is closing in ten minutes, five minutes, we're closed and will have to get security to let you out and then they're all surprised the doors are locked and that we will indeed have to get security to let them out.

When I do this at the grocery store, it's because I've been busy bagging the items and putting them in the trolley. Can only do so many things at once.

Yea that is a good point

The outlets have security staff as well I should think

Same. Unfortunately unlike the pp I can't use my spare third hand to get my purse out while I'm bagging/packing.

High streets just don't have anything to offer that I can't find better online. the only thing that would drag me into town now is if it was a pleasurable experience, that was worth making the effort for.

Instead, they have cut corners and made the whole thing more difficult more inconvenient, and just a hassle.

If I want a round-necked blue cardigan, I can sit at home, google shop it, and find multiple places I can buy it from, or I can deal with the traffic, crap expensive parking and walking around from shop to shop in vain hope I find one.
Pay £3:99 delivery or pay £10+ for petrol and parking and probably come away empty handed.
It's a no-brainer for me.

If I add a bag before starting to scan I always get a message saying I need staff approval. Even if I tell the till it's a bag. The best workaround is to scan something of variable weight first and add it and the bag at the same time. Then the bag weighs doesn't trigger a message.

But yeah, I'm fed up with needing multiple staff approvals and there not being any staff to do it. Sainsbury's, you save a ton by closing proper tills. Use a small amount of that money to staff the self checkouts!

Another factor for the low pay of staff:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/14/tesco-ceo-near-10m-pay-a-slap-in-the-face-for-struggling-workers-union-says

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/24/ceos-100-low-wage-companies-income

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/mar/10/when-17m-isnt-enough-ftse-firms-plead-to-pay-bosses-millions-more

These are just a few examples; but you can find similar news about most retail and food businesses.

It is not the high pay as such that is the biggest annoyance; it is that it is such a huge multiple of an average shop floor income. Of course steering a whole global company is more responsibility, but it's not like they are doing that all on their own, there is a huge team of people at the top to share the workload. Even so, the difference is hard to justify.

They certainly could pay more across most levels, even if the top crew would earn 15m instead of 18m

There is an database / research centre just on this topic alone:

https://highpaycentre.org/about/

I worked for a national retailer in a head office job ( HR) many moons ago, so before COLC and they made all the shop cleaners redundant due to costs. Yet the CEO salary was not far off all those cleaners combined ( Many were part time)
Yes I know he runs the show/ market forces/ if he fks up there'll be redundancies for all staff.

But it's still bonkers

They still had to keep the shops clean though. How did they do that- outsourced? That would have still come with a cost.

Actually no...they incorporated it into the shop staff duties. A lot left but it was a high turnover environment so they didn't care

I think it's to avoid/reduce all the "extras" like hefty employer pension contributions, building up hefty redundancy pay, reducing holiday entitlements, etc.

Just the same way as councils contract out the bin collections, hospitals contract out the cleaning and catering etc.

There was a lot of legacy employment contracts with hefty benefits that was becoming unaffordable. Unions weren't allowing contract renegotiations, so the only other option is contract out so staff get TUPE'd over to new contracts (or offered redundancy terms to leave) with new employees taken on under less onerous contract terms.

It was not hefty benefits, it was simply that they paid more than statutory pay for sickness and maternity. An easy way to cut costs is to take anything away from staff taht is more than the legal minimum.

And chains still make lots of profit. But no one cares about low paid staff having totally shit working conditions.

Our Boots is great, All manned tills No self service

I ordered a photo calendar from Boots recently. I've done this before, and you go into the store and pick it up from the photo counter. Now the photo counter has disappeared, and I found a random member of staff wandering about, who didn't know where it was and had to go and find it in the back. It all seems so disorganised and not customer-oriented.