Am I being mean about the "supersweet" friend?

[endlessnonsense]

I have a friend (well, she's equally a friend of me and DH, she and her XH used to be our neighbours). We now only see her a couple of times a year as we live far away now, and I wouldn't call her a really close friend. When we go on holiday, which is to a hot seaside place in Europe, we often get friends joining us as we have a place to stay and a boat, which is fun. This year she came.

I spent a lot of the time she was here in a state of suppressed anger at her, which caused me to resent her being here. This is because she turned out, on a several-days long time together, rather than the odd dinner we usually have, to be constantly pretending (or was she pretending?) to be very thoughtful and considerate, when I felt she was being just the opposite, in a passive aggressive way.

Everywhere we suggested going and everything we suggested doing, she deferred to us, "oh I'll do whatever you want, don't worry about me", never offering any suggestions of her own or seeming especially enthusiatic. OK, fair enough, we know the place and she doesn't. But it went much further. She was always faux putting herself down/being the martyr/putting on performative sweetness.

My son has special needs and she is always supersweet to him, but I told her multiple times during the holiday, no, he doesn't want an ice cream, he doesn't like it. It must have run into more than a dozen times she said, "oh darling, do you want an ice cream, oh please let me get him an ice cream, I'll pay"(as though I wasn't getting him the ice cream myself because of meanness). (Strangely, although she knows he does like chocolate, she never once offered to buy him a chocolate)

We planned a trip to a particular place she hadn't been, specifically to show it to her. Other friends were coming too, they are local and had been to the place many times, but we're coming along to be sociable with us and her. When she asked me how many people were coming and I mentioned it would be quite a few (in positive way, saying it would be a fun social event) she said, all sweetly, "well if you don't have room for me I'll just stay behind at the apartment, I don't mind at all". That really annoyed me, she knew the trip was arranged specifically for her!

Another (even more annoying) example, we were at a beach bar/restaurant with a bunch of people. Too many to get one table so we were split between 2 tables. Our food came marginally before the other table's (not more than 2 or 3 minutes). In that time she expressed concern that the toddler at the other table had not yet got her food, and actually got up to take her own plate of food to the toddler (it was a salad of some sort and the toddler was getting chips, so not even remotely the same thing). Me and DH had to physically get her to stop it and sit down before the toddler's mum saw.

She has always been very much a "oh don't worry about me, I'll just have a tap water" type of person, but on this holiday she really got my goat. She's left now and I am not sure if she noticed I was a bit snippy with her by the end. AIBU and a mean friend?

I think my need to be ‘nice’ when I was younger was definitely because of a version of this. Although I had a generally happy childhood and my parents weren’t abusive you just couldn’t be ‘naughty’ without a slap and/or a telling off. It makes you very anxious about annoying people but you end up annoying them anyway by being so compliant and agreeable all the time.

Yes. It’s perfectly possible you irritate people by your behaviour, but that’s possible for any of us — it’s just a facet of being human and being around other humans.

For instance, I don’t think most people on here would think it was unreasonable to accept a cup of tea from someone you were visiting (pre-arranged visit that would last a couple of hours), but my mother still gasps in visible dismay if I do in front of her.

To her that’s unconscionably rude, and the ‘correct’ way to do it is to say no about eight times, with an expression suggesting the tea offerer is in fact trying to give you a diamond necklace/their life savings, before eventually caving and saying ‘Oh, only if you’re having one yourself!’ The performance is then repeated for any cake/biscuits/other delicacies (‘I TOLD you not to go to any trouble! You SHOULDN’T HAVE!’ ‘Oh, I shouldn’t!’).

I just accept politely and say ‘That looks delicious, I’d love a slice’.

Which is the equivalent of shitting on someone’s doilies to my mum.

Maybe it's a regional thing. Honestly, people frequently back away from being 'the one' to make the decision where I live (Belfast.) Maybe we don't like to get the blame if the outcome is a bit shit😆 But there is definitely an element of wanting to people please.

@endlessnonsense are you Irish ? Is your friend Irish? This is a really common thing here !! I’m so surprised you haven’t come across this a lot.
My neighbour was here yesterday ,”do you want a coffee?”, no , no , ok I will , don’t go to any trouble” that’s a nice top”, “oh it’s old enough , can’t remember when I got it , just dug it out “ etc etc . Really , really surprised you haven’t.come across this here. Like there’s even loads of sketches about this re. Irish people !!

I agree. There's a lot of people attributing negative reasons to her with no evidence.

Performative
Attention seeking
Passive aggressive
Only doing it to look good
Hopefully people who do this will realise how irritating they are
Martyring themselves
Not doing themselves any favours
Making others responsible

That says far more about the people who are writing these things than the lady in question.

How does anyone know whether she really doesn't mind? Or if she is genuinely thinking of others and wanting their ideas to come first?

Anyone actually suggested, without being shouted down that she may simply be a nice person who doesn't have strong opinions on what she wants to do?

It does sound as though she has very little self esteem and that she's a people pleaser as a result. Chances are her ex treated her a lot worse than you think he did. I'm not saying you don't have a right to be irritated but I do honestly think that she could do with patience and being built up instead of someone being annoyed with her for trying not to make a negative impact on any one.

@Beautiful3 that's exactly what I did say, on both occasions. But being asked continually, "can I get him an ice cream, don't worry I'll pay" gets annoying. As is "oh but surely he would like vanilla/raspberry/pistachio etc", after being told that (because of a sensory issue) he doesn't eat any ice cream.

@IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle it's a beautiful place and people like going there, and when we said the friend had never been there everyone said oh let's all go tomorrow then, while shes still here, that's why.

Awk, this old thing ...🤣🤣🤣 Said about something you just bought yesterday!

💯 @Funnywonder , like the entire situation the op describes is something I’ve come across at every social gathering with Irish people !! It’s a sort of deferential behaviour whether that’s good or bad , it’s definitely part of the Irish culture and social interactions here. I mean if you are too decisive it’s nearly seen as being arrogant or a “a bit confident” like it’s a bad thing 😂😂😂

@Funnywonder My friend recently has gotten over a bad illness and had taken up exercise and less stress overall . She literally look stunning at a wedding recently, like people were double taking all the time . I was like “you look amazing , absolutely stunning “ and her answer “at tbh I look an awful wreak , look closer, the dress is an old thing really “ 😂😂😂

You sound a bit over-sensitive and that you just don't like her, so you're interpreting normal behaviour in quite uncharitable ways. She was trying to fit in, when on holidays with you to a place you go to all the time, where you're hosting and where she's never been. She may have felt quite the spare wheel.

@Thatsawrap1 neither of us is Irish, I am English, she is Easten European. I acknowledge I don't know that many Irish people very well though! I have only lived there a few years and have worked from home that whole time, so I don't meet a lot of people, except to do with my son (and special needs parents tend to be an assertive bunch wherever you are!).

I don't understand why you wouldn't say "he doesn't like ice-cream, but he'd love a choccy bar, thank you".

So everyone did want to go....Did she know there was going to be a large group when she agreed to go on the trip?

I think for some reason you're looking for problems.

I can’t believe no one has quoted the absolute totemic example of this! The bit in Motherland where her MIL is so “little old me” that she will only accept the heel of bread, making Julia ruin the entire loaf.
It’s just so simpering and fake.
Surely in order to be a friend, you have be fun or funny. Not all the time, but otherwise what’s the point. People trying to give toddlers salad against their will isn’t enough to build a friendship, that’s just people who are near you.

This is interesting, but do you mean Irish women, or do men do it too?

I know lots of English women like this too, but I can't think of a man.

Lot of people not getting this. No one minds an authentic laid back person who genuinely doesn't mind and likes to go with the flow. Such people don't behave in the manner Op is describing. For example:

Genuinely laid back:

Q: Would you like a glass of wine
A: sure whatever is open' or 'whatever you are having'
Q I have red or white open - I am having white
A: A glass of white would be lovely

EASY

Not easy, extreme example:

Q would you like a glass of wine
A: I didn't realise we would be drinking wine, If I had known I would have brought some wine. I might have some wine in my car/I will go and check. Goes to car. I can't seem to find it, I will go to the shops... and on and on.

It is exhausting.

When I was like this (not as extreme) it definitely wasn’t performative. It becomes ingrained in you as a child to be nice, not to backchat (aka have an opinion), to be polite at all times. It wasn’t just my (not abusive) parents, it was relatives and others. We were brought up having to go to church every week and one Sunday at mass my older sister fainted (I was about 7). She used to faint a lot as she never ate breakfast so it wasn’t a big deal to me and I didn’t express any particular concern. In front of everyone this priest told me off for not caring about my sister. I was mortified, upset and angry at his public scolding. It upset me for a long time but I didn’t say anything. It just added to my belief that I had to be ‘nice, nice, and more bloody nice, in every aspect of my life because you never know when someone is going to humiliate you for your ‘bad’ behaviour.

Thankfully I eventually saw the light (thanks to maturity and life experiences) and stopped being (an annoying) people pleaser.

There are usually stories behind someone’s need to be perpetually affable even when it’s detrimental to them.

@Lucyfoot She knew who was coming. You can only get there by boat so all the boat friends were coming. As happens most days when we are here. We tend to all go out together for the day if we go somewhere. She knows that, she has been here with us before. And she had already been out with the group several times on this trip.

there isn't much pleasure in spending time with people who never have an opinion or preference, it's a wet blanket of passivity which is just hard work to be around. That behaviour isn't a virtue; at best it's really annoying.

What you describe is fucking annoying. It might come from a place of anxiety and kindness but it serves just to get her in the centre of attention and get everyone constantly tiptoeing around her and managing her emotions. I have a person like this in my family and it gives me the RAGE.

Coincidentally I just now saw this

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/article/2024/aug/14/a-moment-that-changed-me-i-put-people-pleasing-aside-and-told-my-new-boyfriend-the-truth?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

@Lucyfoot oh it’s not at all just a woman thing, absolutely across the board with men and women alike. My brothers and male friends the exact same with clothes . I was just using an example with a woman as it was recent. I congratulated my friend on a job and he was like “ah it was only because the other (better candidate) was sick for the interview 😂 Probably incredibly annoying after a while as the op suggests.

@endlessnonsense are you or your friend Irish ?

While some of us who are more assertive, the default position amongst lots of Irish people is to be 'I don't mind'-ish and easy-going, sometimes to the point of being infuriating. And some of those self same people will bitch horribly beforehand or afterwards rather than say there and then in front of others saying what they think/mean. I have been hung out to dry at meetings due the this behaviour which I see as cowardice rather than niceness/politeness. I know a few Dutch people in particular who live here who find our lack of directness infuriating.

I felt tired just reading that😁 thankfully that wasn’t my level of people pleasing, that would really get on my nerves.

Next thing you know you’ve got a text from friend saying she’s on a flight to the vineyards of Napa Valley😁

That would drive me insane. Step mother in-law (is that a thing?) would actually produce a leftover sandwich from the car when invited for lunch in this kind of obsequious way. Actually came across rude.