Am I being mean about the "supersweet" friend?

[endlessnonsense]

I have a friend (well, she's equally a friend of me and DH, she and her XH used to be our neighbours). We now only see her a couple of times a year as we live far away now, and I wouldn't call her a really close friend. When we go on holiday, which is to a hot seaside place in Europe, we often get friends joining us as we have a place to stay and a boat, which is fun. This year she came.

I spent a lot of the time she was here in a state of suppressed anger at her, which caused me to resent her being here. This is because she turned out, on a several-days long time together, rather than the odd dinner we usually have, to be constantly pretending (or was she pretending?) to be very thoughtful and considerate, when I felt she was being just the opposite, in a passive aggressive way.

Everywhere we suggested going and everything we suggested doing, she deferred to us, "oh I'll do whatever you want, don't worry about me", never offering any suggestions of her own or seeming especially enthusiatic. OK, fair enough, we know the place and she doesn't. But it went much further. She was always faux putting herself down/being the martyr/putting on performative sweetness.

My son has special needs and she is always supersweet to him, but I told her multiple times during the holiday, no, he doesn't want an ice cream, he doesn't like it. It must have run into more than a dozen times she said, "oh darling, do you want an ice cream, oh please let me get him an ice cream, I'll pay"(as though I wasn't getting him the ice cream myself because of meanness). (Strangely, although she knows he does like chocolate, she never once offered to buy him a chocolate)

We planned a trip to a particular place she hadn't been, specifically to show it to her. Other friends were coming too, they are local and had been to the place many times, but we're coming along to be sociable with us and her. When she asked me how many people were coming and I mentioned it would be quite a few (in positive way, saying it would be a fun social event) she said, all sweetly, "well if you don't have room for me I'll just stay behind at the apartment, I don't mind at all". That really annoyed me, she knew the trip was arranged specifically for her!

Another (even more annoying) example, we were at a beach bar/restaurant with a bunch of people. Too many to get one table so we were split between 2 tables. Our food came marginally before the other table's (not more than 2 or 3 minutes). In that time she expressed concern that the toddler at the other table had not yet got her food, and actually got up to take her own plate of food to the toddler (it was a salad of some sort and the toddler was getting chips, so not even remotely the same thing). Me and DH had to physically get her to stop it and sit down before the toddler's mum saw.

She has always been very much a "oh don't worry about me, I'll just have a tap water" type of person, but on this holiday she really got my goat. She's left now and I am not sure if she noticed I was a bit snippy with her by the end. AIBU and a mean friend?

Agree. I think she felt a bit wrong footed being a 'third wheel' on the holiday so was just trying to not be a nuisance. I'm not seeing any of it as 'performative'.

Totally - turns out OP is rather mean spirited and unpleasant. Who would think?

You may not see yourself that way but that's how you come across to me on the basis of this thread.

She does sound very annoying the way your describe it! But it may be that someone else in your place would not have found her particularly annoying and so would have written a very different description of our time together.

Regardless though, clearly you are not compatible holiday companions. So (depending on how your partner feels about it) I'd try (nicely) to stick to shorter get togethers in future.

This thread is fascinating, and I think I would have behaved like your friend at a previous time in my life. The thing about offering not to go on the day out is bonkers and annoying, and probably something I would have done. (I would put myself in situations where I wanted something, but when people offered to do it, I would refuse to accept it and say "don't bother". And then later regret it, and be sad/angry. Crazy.)

As a PP said, some people (out of anxiety and trauma) have a "jammed brain" and feel constantly overwhelmed. I was like that. I can't remember entire trips or episodes of my past, and I couldn't make decisions or see a situation clearly.

I grew up in a house where my mum's needs were the only ones that mattered (the only ones that existed, I'd say). I grew up trying to please everyone and desperate for people to like me. But of course that's not sincere, as I was denying my own needs and wants - perhaps people thought I was fake and manipulative (I was always angry and full of resentment deep down). But that was the only way I thought someone could like me.

And yes, I had a couple of abusive relationships, including a long abusive marriage.

I don't know if someone could have helped me at that time. Maybe if someone had infinite amounts of patience to stick through the whole process, giving me reassurance. But of course, that's not realistic and no one should endure that.

I've been through loads of therapy and soul-searching in the last few years and I'm different now. I can voice my needs and wants, and I'm not as desperate to be liked as before ("desperate" is the right word, in my case).

Regarding decisions and "I don't mind", I see it very differently: I'm a solo mother and have a career, so I spend my whole day making decisions and being responsible for others. I consider a trip or an outing without making decisions as a treat. I love it when people organise things for me, and make it very clear I appreciate it.

My grandmother was like this. Everything was "oh I couldn't possibly" "oh don't worry about me" " oh no that's far too much for me" when in fact the not so subtle message (in her case) was "you should be paying much more attention to me".

This would annoy me too. Walking over to a toddler with a salad… I mean what?

She was annoying. But also certainly prone to anxiety, low self-esteem and periods of depression.

In the words of Nene Leakes - 'its getting weird'.

Why invite someone you seem to despise on holiday? To get yourself worked up and then justify her awfulness by outlining her 'trangressions' publically on mumsnet? You sound worse with every post you make to be honest.

This.

Your friend sounds like she has issues probably stemming back to childhood, where being seen or heard were not the done things at home.
It then becomes a mask, and she doesn’t know how to drop it.
For someone more confident, it is highly annoying as you want a ‘real’ person rather than one who is politely manufactured.
You are probably best not to invite her on holiday again.
That’s a given.
But perhaps have a little empathy for her. It’s horrible living in a world where you feel you have to mask in order to be accepted.
If you don’t see her that much then feel irritated, and then let it go.

She grew up in a very Catholic eastern European country, I know little about her childhood as she never talks about it. Maybe that says something.

No way! The friend I was talking about is from a Polish Catholic family and does this, but as I say, it's not performative or fake but simply her way of being and I accept it. Now knowing that your friend is from a similar culture, I think it says a lot and you're very likely wrong to ascribe questionable motives to her.

@Marinade

No, actually having gone through it all on this thread, I think my conclusion I don't really like her, it's true. The reason things have stuck in my mind is because each of them really irritated me. I think distancing myself from her would be best for both of us. I see that now.

Good post. I think that a lot of us explaining the likely motivations of the OP's friend's people-pleasing behaviour are ourselves reformed people-pleasers who pulled ourselves out of scripts we learned in childhood about other people always being more important, and how other people would only like us if we were no 'bother'.

I won't lie, it's taken me half a lifetime to be able to express my needs, and there were a couple of time in the last couple of years when I did express them, got a negative response from someone, and defaulted right back to thinking that expressing any needs was Difficult Behaviour that I Must Stop Or Be Eternally Disliked. It's absolutely still a trigger for me.

I also have a people-pleasing mother who has never recognised the extent to which it has created her own loneliness (no one really knows who she is, because she always just says whatever she thinks the other person wants her to say, based on what she herself would like the other person to say, which involves anyone dealing with her in endless negotiations about perfectly straightforward stuff or just a lot more work.)

She once, despite knowing she gets very motion sick, even in cars or buses, went out on a boat day trip with some friends who had a boat (despite not wanting to, because she thought it would be rude to refuse), thought she was 'being no trouble' by saying nothing when she began to feel ill, kept saying she was fine until they were a long way from port, until she threw up all over herself, someone else and the boat, and they had to turn around and go back to shore. It would have been far easier if she'd said just said no to something she didn't want to do in the first place.

Diagnosed with Anti Social Personality Disorder as per DSM 5 criteria or just 'plucked out of the air' diagnosed using cod psychology because you don't like him?

It must be me as she just sounds like a really nice person @endlessnonsense

I certainly didn't invite her out of pity. I didn't even specifically invite her, she asked if she could come as she knows we always have an open invitation to anyone who wants to join us. I don't pity her at all.

Back in my 20’s when I had an extended group of acquaintances (friends of friends that occasionally I would also hang out with) there were a couple of women like this.

I could never put my finger on why I found them ok company but something grated with me - and I am a big accommodator to keep the peace so I should have felt more akin with them.

It was all the slightly over the top birthday gifts or the slightly out of whack offers of help/assistance to people they barely knew. I was always a bit eye rolling even though everyone else seemed to think they were really “sweet”

When you write it down it does sound mean spirited but honestly it all felt so over the top and irritating at the time. So I completely hear you OP. It does make you feel like a bitch…..and I think it is an indicator that you don’t really like her very much - which is ok!

Fortunately I am now middle aged so no longer have hang out in big extended gangs so experience only what I feel is genuinely kind and caring behaviour from my friends!

I have a friend who is a little like this, but she acknowledges how it can be annoying and is much less so now.

Having a child with SEN, I also find I am less patient now with patronising bs. He's a teenager and he is being an ass, I will ignore the behaviour. Some people can't help but comment though.

I went through a phase of being like this...

As a child I was constantly bollocked for being fussy or humiliated for asking for things (food typically but not only that)...

As a homeless teenager I spent a lot of time as the probably not-particularly-wanted-guest in the homes of parents of friends of mine who felt bad not inviting me so did invite me... but it was quite clear they'd rather not have.

So I sort of learned to try to make myself as unobtrusive as possible... and it went a bit too far really.

Very fortunately a lovely friend of mine a few years older than me pulled me up on it, kindly, but firmly and told me I was actually being MORE of a bother with my 'oh I don't mind whatever you're having/you want to do/etc' behaviour.

I genuinely hadn't realised, but then experienced it from the hosts POV a short while later and that really brought home just HOW fucking grating it is, endlessly having to make decisions for someone else. Always being on the look out that they're not flinging themself off some metaphorical bridge to prostrate themselves at the feet of others in order to 'not be a bother'.

But if you don't realllllly like her, then it's probably not worth the effort trying to tell her to pack it in, so probably just better to distance yourselves quietly!

There are instances of when people say that they 'don't mind', e.g. what they have for lunch, that they genuinely do not mind. If I eat pretty much anything, and don't fancy anything in particular, if someone were to ask me what I wanted to eat, I would say that I didn't mind, and let them choose.
Surely this is normal behaviour, or does it now have to be reclassified as 'people pleasing' behaviour?!

She sounds a really annoying guest . Some people are really difficult to host. Just find an excuse not to spend time with her again as you really don’t like her. I wouldn’t either.

She has been going through a breakup from her XH and we thought she could use a fun holiday , that's why we invited her.

was what you originally said.