Am I being mean about the "supersweet" friend?

[endlessnonsense]

I have a friend (well, she's equally a friend of me and DH, she and her XH used to be our neighbours). We now only see her a couple of times a year as we live far away now, and I wouldn't call her a really close friend. When we go on holiday, which is to a hot seaside place in Europe, we often get friends joining us as we have a place to stay and a boat, which is fun. This year she came.

I spent a lot of the time she was here in a state of suppressed anger at her, which caused me to resent her being here. This is because she turned out, on a several-days long time together, rather than the odd dinner we usually have, to be constantly pretending (or was she pretending?) to be very thoughtful and considerate, when I felt she was being just the opposite, in a passive aggressive way.

Everywhere we suggested going and everything we suggested doing, she deferred to us, "oh I'll do whatever you want, don't worry about me", never offering any suggestions of her own or seeming especially enthusiatic. OK, fair enough, we know the place and she doesn't. But it went much further. She was always faux putting herself down/being the martyr/putting on performative sweetness.

My son has special needs and she is always supersweet to him, but I told her multiple times during the holiday, no, he doesn't want an ice cream, he doesn't like it. It must have run into more than a dozen times she said, "oh darling, do you want an ice cream, oh please let me get him an ice cream, I'll pay"(as though I wasn't getting him the ice cream myself because of meanness). (Strangely, although she knows he does like chocolate, she never once offered to buy him a chocolate)

We planned a trip to a particular place she hadn't been, specifically to show it to her. Other friends were coming too, they are local and had been to the place many times, but we're coming along to be sociable with us and her. When she asked me how many people were coming and I mentioned it would be quite a few (in positive way, saying it would be a fun social event) she said, all sweetly, "well if you don't have room for me I'll just stay behind at the apartment, I don't mind at all". That really annoyed me, she knew the trip was arranged specifically for her!

Another (even more annoying) example, we were at a beach bar/restaurant with a bunch of people. Too many to get one table so we were split between 2 tables. Our food came marginally before the other table's (not more than 2 or 3 minutes). In that time she expressed concern that the toddler at the other table had not yet got her food, and actually got up to take her own plate of food to the toddler (it was a salad of some sort and the toddler was getting chips, so not even remotely the same thing). Me and DH had to physically get her to stop it and sit down before the toddler's mum saw.

She has always been very much a "oh don't worry about me, I'll just have a tap water" type of person, but on this holiday she really got my goat. She's left now and I am not sure if she noticed I was a bit snippy with her by the end. AIBU and a mean friend?

I think some of the responses on here are very illuminating. There are so many posters whose default response to this person's behaviour is rage (this word has cropped up a few times) - and they weren't even there! I can see how the behaviour might be annoying to some people, but it's so unfair to ascribe hidden meaning to it. Saying that it's performative or somehow manipulative. That the 'sweetness' displayed is disingenuous. I think that says far more about the person holding that opinion. Why get the boot in? We get along with some people and not others. That's fine. And often we only find this out after spending longer than usual in their company. No need to rip their entire personality to shreds.

People have different personalities and temperaments. Maybe some
people are nervous and just want to fit in and try a bit too hard.

I think some of the comments on this thread seem so cruel. 😔

My MIL is one of these types ... the sort who brings out a sandwich to eat when you've invited her for a meal "Oh you don't need to worry about feeding me!". If we visit her she'll offer us food with the proviso "oh ... it'll probably be horrible, you'd have made something much better" or hand you a gift with "Oh I expect you'll hate it ... I always buy the wrong thing".

How can you deal with someone like that. Utterly infuriating, rude & ungracious.

And "nice" people, nope - I remember my parents instructing me on the root of the word "nice" .... foolish, stupid, ignorant. Not something to aspire to.

I think there are lot of us commenting on this thread who understand very well that this is a trauma response but also understand that maladaptive behaviours lingering in to adulthood can also become manipulative / abusive towards other people.

I hear you. Incredibly annoying. My DH does performative dishwasher loading. It's quite a spectacle, but only when there are guests around. Look at meeee! I can load the dishwasher!!! I am a Modern Man!!

Why didn’t you mention this at the very beginning?? Of course it says a lot, it’s cultural. That’s the problem when it is a white person. They look very similar to you and you don’t realise how different they are deep inside as their upbringing was actually very different from yours.
By the way with the ice cream story I’ve got an image in my head straight away of a lady from Eastern Europe I knew at primary but as you didn’t mention anything I just thought it’s a coincidence

That's such a cynical way of looking at it though. She's probably just trying to be helpful, even if she is misguided. I wouldn't overthink it more than that.

I'm with you OP. There are two types of " people pleasers " - those who are genuinely so unconfident, damaged, full of anxiety that they will do anything not to rub others the wrong way, in fear of being rejected or bullied OR the other manipulative type, where they want to be seen as holier than thou, enjoy playing the martyr, are passive aggressive and like to stir the pot for which they can never be blamed as they are so ' innocent ' and ' sweet'. If you don't have experience of the two different types, you'd be fooled into thinking they're one and the same but truthfully, their motivations are very far apart. Your friend is the second type.

I had an old friend who was like this - we'd arrange a day out and then come nearer the time I'd get the inevitable messages saying I don't mind if you've changed your mind and want to cancel, you must have a lot on, You've probably got better things to do than hang out with me. I couldn't understand where this came from as I'd never given any indication I was ' doing her a favour ' by meeting up and I genuinely looked forward to seeing her. Finally it dawned on me that far from being an innocent, self deprecating gesture, it was her that didn't actually want to meet and she was pushing me to rearrange so she could get what she wanted, and enabled her to ' play victim ' as the bonus. Mind games. This is only one small example of her behaviour, there were many more.

Your friend has shown she doesn't respect your boundaries ( your request not to give ice cream to your ds for one), but has overstepped under the guise of being nice and kind, whilst trying to imply that you're the unreasonable/ tight one. I would be rethinking your friendship moving forward.

This reminds me of an old school friend.
She got married in her early twenties.
Divorced a few years later.
I couldn't believe her husband who I thought was ugly, no career, all round loser would divorce her.
She was very beautiful (probably still is) and nice.
He was lucky to have her.

When we met up and she started to tell me the stuff that had gone in her marriage etc - I eventually realised if I was him I would have divorced her too.

She had no opinion on anything at all.
She couldn't tell when something was blindingly obvious.
She copied what I ordered from the menu at the restaurant and then copied me again when I changed my mind!

I saw her whispering to her daughter when I arrived at her house to collect her before we went to the restaurant - her daughter ran towards me and jumped on me for a hug - I couldn't believe she told her daughter to do that - did she think I was so stupid that I'm not going to recognise this fake behaviour?!

Then the restaurant thing happened.

By the end of it it I didn't want to see her again.
I realised she was like this at school too - hanger on, indecisive, not really a friend, someone so insecure that hung onto anyone within proximity so she could get along in life.

When we all went onto to do A-levels and she didn't have what it took and did some other course she stopped talking to us because then she had those new course people to look after her.

Somehow, her behaviour didn't bother me at school.
Her first marriage was an arranged marriage - her second one is an arranged marriage to a guy form India - no idea how that one is is getting on but, I'd imagine he'll tolerate her for other reasons.

She didn't pass her GCSE's - can't drive - just don't get people like this.

Yes, I agree.

And far too many armchair psychologists. Maybe some of them need to put their 'skills' to good use and look at why this has stirred up so much anger in them.

My DH has an aunt like this. She ended up having a nervous breakdown, I think the behaviour is anxiety based.

It all screams “fawning” to me. She’s desperate to be liked and terrified of upsetting everyone. She thinks if she’s ultra nice, smiley and helpful she can’t be hurt or disliked.

Sounds like young me. I bet her ex and her parents are the type of people where you have to walk on eggshells around.

I wasn’t aware until I got older and wiser that it doesn’t come across how you think it will. People find you annoying, a bit “pollyanna” or think you’re being fake and you come across as a bit of an airhead for not having any preferences or opinions.

(Also narcissists spot you a mile off! But that’s another subject.)

I have a friend like this. A so-called people pleaser, but like others have already pointed out, they end up doing the opposite of pleasing people because it's so clearly fake and try hard.

One time I was sleeping over at here place and I almost told her to stfu and let me sleep because she kept asking me a million questions, like do I want noise or silence, the window open or closed etc.

Regardless of whether it’s a trauma response or not, it is behaviour that is designed to make other people behave in a certain way, and the person doing it, if an adult, needs to manage their own behaviour, whatever its origins, and acknowledge that it may push other people away.

I have a fairly serious eating disorder stemming from a childhood where my mother tended to think that feeding a baby/small child could wait till other, more important household jobs had been done, and where there wasn’t much food, anyway. I’ve had lots of therapy, and am working on it, but I’m still sometimes anxious about food, especially in situations where supply and timings are out of my control for long periods, such as being on holiday. I’ve just got back from a fortnight’s holiday with friends, where I knew there were a couple of things I was going to struggle with, partly because of a recent death. So I talked to the friend I am closest to, told her the situation and what I was going to do to manage it, and that there was one thing that would be considered ‘normal’ for a holiday that I was not going to be doing. She respected that, I managed my stuff with minimum impact on other people, and we all had a good time. I’m back to therapy tomorrow to keep working.

Which is a long way round of saying that having an ingrained trauma response to something doesn’t mean you, ans ann andult, aren’t responsible for dealing with it.

Genuinely interested in the view that this is a trauma response. One of the people I know who has these tendencies has been in several abusive relationships.

Honestly, how would you suggest dealing this type of behaviour? Just sort of accept and ignore - don't engage in it? I also struggle not to get irritated and don't want to avoid this person (as they have so many other lovely qualities).

I didn't mention her origin as initially I didn't see that it changes anything. She has lived and worked in England for decades. I too did not grow up in England. Thinking about it though I imagine it is relevant, but it still doesn't prevent me from feeling annoyed. As PP have said, as adults we all do have a responsibility to look at our own behaviour, wherever it stems from.

That reminds me a lot of my aunt. I genuinely couldn't tell you who she really is, behind the performatively sweet facade. I know there's some kind of fucked up family dynamic going on- I don't think her and my dad's parents were very nice to them, and although my dad sees her regularly he's a bit domineering and dismissive of her. My mum is an out and out bitch to her, and has been all my life. There's also neurodiversity in the family- I'm autistic, have suspicions about my dad, and often wonder if she's heavily masking. Every time I have suggested something she might like to try and engage her, she's smiled sweetly and said "How kind, maybe another time". I guess she'll remain an enigma forever at this point.

I can’t bear the “I don’t mind” all the time. Have an opinion!!! Especially if, having said you don’t mind, you actually do mind and will complain about it later…

Honest opinion OP- You come across as hard work yourself.

There's something performative about how much you go on about this place and your boat and your large number of friends who all spontaneously want to do mass, fun outings. Tbh I'm not sure I'd want to go on holiday with either of you.

God, how irritating. I can't bear a martyr. And almost impossible to resolve because she didn't specifically do anything unkind or rude.

although I guess, deep down, to be honest, I always considered her a bit of a wet blanket compared to my other friends. She has been going through a breakup from her XH and we thought she could use a fun holiday , that's why we invited her.

So basically, you've never liked her, think you and your other friends are better/ more interesting/ more exciting and this was a pity invitation.

I can't really tell as this account is obviously one- sided, but tbh you both sound like hard work and I'm not sure I'd trust either of you.

If you go on holiday to the same place for over 25 years you tend to make friends there. It's the same for lots of us who do this. Also some friends join us here every year because we know the place so well and so can be sure to give them a nice time. It's fun to do that.

I am practically a hermit the rest of the year and l work nearly all the time. I don't see my holiday as performative at all, I am afraid. I am lucky though, I admit that. It's a good holiday.

Wow there are some really mean people on this thread! I hope nobody recognises themselves from all these descriptions of your 'loser' mates.

Honestly, how would you suggest dealing this type of behaviour? Just sort of accept and ignore - don't engage in it? I also struggle not to get irritated and don't want to avoid this person (as they have so many other lovely qualities).

If you stay calm, don't get exasperated, and listen to their opinions with respect when they express them, they may calm down and the behaviour become less evident. Asking their advice about a situation in your life, however small, also works - it allows them to express opinions and show intelligence and judgement because it is not about them. You would want to avoid obvious irritation, making a fuss (eg about a day trip you didn't particularly want to go on and felt they were not grateful and excited enough about) and stressful social situations with lots of strangers.

You really don't like her do you? You are coming across as quite snidey and passive aggressive with the precise and rather nasty methodology that you are employing to pick apart her comments and actions. Have you memorised all her comments or something, it is weird? Just don't be friends with her - far better than creating nasty and underhand posts on mumsnet.