To think this is fucking crazy

[itstheendoftheworldasweknowitnow]

We’re en route to a holiday rental in France. I wasn’t sure if the pool was shared or not between other guests so emailed the owner to ask. This is his reply - which I put in to google translate
Could you tell me if sharing the swimming pool with us who occupy the ground floor bothers you and for what reason? Recently we refused the rental because the wife and the two young daughters were veiled; are you english or muslim? We do not want you to make the trip and see yourself refused access to our property for reasons of displaying religious beliefs which are very resented by the neighborhood.

Fuck Fuck Fuck
What the hell do I do?
I am not a Muslim.
I am also not a racist.

Tbh, I didn’t read it that way. That specific sentence doesn’t make sense, and I read it as ‘those’ rather than ‘us’. It’s really rare for owners to share facilities with the people they rent to. I know I wouldn’t like to be sharing space with the owners, and you’d feel you were being watched. The only time I’ve shared spaces with someone is a couple of times in small airbnbs, but only for a night or two, and I knew upfront.

I don't get it. Are you Muslim? Does this seem to be something he said and his phone typed it. I don't understand.

I never check out the personal opinions of people I book holidays with or purchase any service from. Never once have I sent a list of all my core beliefs and asked the seller to confirm they are of the same view before I hand over my money.

I doubt anyone on this thread does

Just enjoy your Holiday.

Most likely. France has a very different attitude and laws.

Go, enjoy your holiday.

I speak French and English. Tbh whatever the law I find it really racist that they ask you if you are English or Muslim. You can be both English and Muslim 🙄 just as you can be both French and Muslim.

For my dissertation at university I wrote about issues with perceptions of the Muslim veil in France and the issue is really very complex, but this lady's attitude is simply racism. The pool may be shared but it is not a public space in which they have the right to refuse veiled women. Feel sorry for the family who visited.

France and the UK are similar in some ways but different in others. The UK is tolerant but not as liberal. France is more liberal but not as tolerant, in France Islam and some other religions aren't tolerated as much as they're seen as anti-liberal, especially in relation to women's and gay people's rights. In the UK we tolerate a wider range of cultures and to be so we lose some liberty. It's always a balance, you will find many places outside of the UK have different approaches to these issues though..

Agree with this.

It sounds racist to me both in English and French.

As you’ve already paid and are on your way, I’d still go. But would keep contact to a minimum during the stay. Just smile and pretend you don’t understand when they speak to you. The host seems vile.

Well it’s a very, very strange way to not say it.

Jesus…! If you were Muslim and were refused, would he issue a refund? Do we have to declare our religious beliefs to book a holiday?
How bloody awful.

Racist wanker. This attitude to Muslims is tolerated in France which is why we try to avoid the country if we can.

Some people aren’t comfortable around bigotry [even] if they aren’t the target of it. Just cos you might be, doesn’t mean everyone is.

Hopefully OP will have a nice holiday and also report to the booking site and warn like minded people off that place / village.

Reply: Pas probleme, personne n'est voilee. On etait curieux quant a la piscine, c'est tout. Merci.
Cordialement

On another note I live in an area of London which has a large Muslim minority. The local council ran a regular women only swim hour at the leisure centre along with free taster swim lessons, which I went to and many muslim women came covered up and had a really great time. They ran this sort of thing to help with integration and also improve swimming competency in populations where women often don't swim due to feeling uncomfortable in mixed environments.

I personally thought it was lovely and a great initiative to encourage integration.

Thinking you can ban the veil just makes people feel unwelcome and (during the research in my dissertation) in some cases led some minorities feel like they were choosing between their culture and (because it is a cultural and not a religious symbol ultimately) their nationality. Many may not have chosen to wear the veil at all if the government hadn't made such a big deal about it.

Anyway fascinating issue with so many complexities, but as mentioned before these hosts are just thinly veiled (pardon the pun) racists.

But how would you feel to turn up to your expensive, long awaited summer holiday and be told you were going to be restricted in the times you could use the communal pool because there were Muslim male guests who felt they could not share a pool with women not in their family? I would be upset not to have been warned in advance. It wouldn't surprise me if this host has had issues with this in the past- there have been several posters who have had this happen to them, they've been fine with it but I would be extremely disappointed, and frankly feel that my holiday had been ruined. Not because I hate Muslims, but because on holiday I want to be free to use the pool when I want to!

I'm so sorry that this has happened to you! Finding new accommodation in peak season is going to be hellishly difficult if you're already en route, so if I were you, I would probably go with the suggestion @EnidSpyton made: staying chez monsieur le raciste as planned, but then reporting the hell out of him afterward, and leaving him the worst possible review.

I love France, speak French and have done some academic work on French feminism. I understand the importance of laïcité/secularism and so on. But that message is 100% racist. I'm shocked by how many posts on this thread are trying to minimise the racism.

Just because anti-Muslim racism is common in France does not make it OK. The French law against wearing full facial veils applies only in public, not on someone's private property. And the word 'voilée' (veiled) which the man used in his message does not necessarily refer to the burqa or niqab. 'Le voile' often just means headscarf or hijab. A veil that covers the whole face is 'le voile intégral’. This man won't rent to Muslims, period. And he says his neighbours don't like Muslims. He's a racist, pure and simple. Undoubtedly votes for the Rassemblement National.

I've just returned from an Airbnb in Marseille where our host happened to be a lovely Muslim woman (as we discovered when we arrived). I guess that's the difference between Marseille and rural Provence...

What if the OP was Muslim though? What would she be expected to do, not go on holiday because of her religious beliefs? Racist host. Secularity is a good excuse to exercise racist views.

Thank you. This is exactly the advice that I needed.

Yes, that's great advice, and very generous.

I think what OP said they said was

Recently we refused the rental because the wife and the two young daughters were veiled; are you english or muslim? We do not want you to make the trip and see yourself refused access to our property for reasons of displaying religious beliefs which are very resented by the neighborhood.

nothing to do with the pool

Tell him you are Muslim and see if he cancels it?! 😆 Then you will know if he is being racist or just following French custom.

We’ll go but OP I just came back from Arcachon in France where the pool was shared and they were absolute pains about it so PLEASE read every rule left out, they were so domineering and aggressive towards us. We felt very unwelcome.

If that's how you talk about your "best friend" behind her back, I dread to imagine what you say about people you don't like...

It’s the law regardless of their views

I wouldn't knowingly pay money to someone who was racist, but if I'd already paid for something, and knew there was no way I could get my money back, I'd definitely be doing what I paid for. Then when I left, I'd send an email explaining what I really thought.

Try not to let it ruin your holiday OP. You had no way of knowing this prior to booking.