To think this is fucking crazy

[itstheendoftheworldasweknowitnow]

We’re en route to a holiday rental in France. I wasn’t sure if the pool was shared or not between other guests so emailed the owner to ask. This is his reply - which I put in to google translate
Could you tell me if sharing the swimming pool with us who occupy the ground floor bothers you and for what reason? Recently we refused the rental because the wife and the two young daughters were veiled; are you english or muslim? We do not want you to make the trip and see yourself refused access to our property for reasons of displaying religious beliefs which are very resented by the neighborhood.

Fuck Fuck Fuck
What the hell do I do?
I am not a Muslim.
I am also not a racist.

Oh, no, mine would be on Normandy/Brittany.
ETA: Oops, just seen the OP says it's Provence. As you were.

Well, if it's rural Provence, then it's not an unusual attitude. My husband is from there and much as I love the area - it's also shockingly racist towards Muslims, paired with an unhealthy dose of xenophia, and there's very little social stigma around expressing those views openly.

There's not much you can do now and it's not as if not going will make the slightest bit of difference.

Just report the booking post holiday and let them know what was said. Unfortunately, because of the rules around religious dress in France, they may not be falling foul of any regulations but you can also leave a review that shows them up for their racist attitudes.

So, would you say that all male groups are so common that it's something you would risk not enjoying your holiday for by not bothering to check in advance? Because I was clearly not referring to them, I was referring to the idea of them "taking the risk" that there might be women wanting to use the pool, when the risk would be probably at least ninety percent.

Anyway, I'll leave you to bask in your warm glow of faux tolerance and self-denial, but I'll just say, there's a difference between being kind and deluding yourself about what happened. But I'll leave you to have the (no doubt, lovely and kind, since you're clearly a terribly lovely and kind person) last word.

Gawd. That sounds horrible. But I guess if there is law against the veil? Which in itself is horribly oppressive. But I heard they insist men wear budgie smugglers or face deportation?
I think the French are weird about swimwear?
I really hope they don't spoil your holiday.
I personally think what he said could be breaching some sort of law against racism, if they said that in the UK. But who knows in France?

To be fair, I wouldn't be happy sharing a pool with someone or people who were dictating of what I was wearing so as not to offend them - either way! If it does matter to you as a Muslim, then you should book a completely private place so you can do what you want? Same as someone who's a naturist should book a resort that doesn't mind them stripping off! Sounds like the landlord has had problems in the past with people dictating who else can see them in the pool. I don't think he's being unreasonable, he's checking before you kick off as clearly he's had issues in the past.

We once shared a pool with a few families, one of them were Turkish- the dad refused to be in the pool and would not allowed his teenage sons be in the water if any women were in the pool. The thing was, they would leave the pool instead of expecting everyone else not to use it though, so we ended up having a schedule when their family was using it for themselves.

^ This! Let's be honest, it's freaking selfish to insist and impose your religious views on others full stop, never mind when you're supposed to just be having a laugh in cossie in a swimming pool. I don't want to be dictated to by someone else's religion whatever that may be on holiday and neither do most others.

@itstheendoftheworldasweknowitnow as a Muslim woman, thank you for recognising this man's bigotry and feeling in your heart that it's not ok for someone to hold such views.

At this late stage, don't disappoint your children by cancelling their holiday. Go, let them enjoy it. Cancelling won't achieve anything - he'd keep the money and he wouldn't care that someone was offended, so you'd end up with no holiday and disappointed children for nothing. Save all the messages, maybe even ask him to clarify what his objection is, and then you can report him to whatever booking site and monitoring organisations he's involved with. What he's doing is discrimination and may be illegal as well as bigoted, so the relevant parties should be made aware.

Islam says if we see injustice, we should try to challenge it with our actions; if we can't, then we should try to challenge it with words; and if we can't, then we should challenge it in our hearts. If all you can do is to recognise that it isn't right for the someone to discriminate against people because of their faith, that's actually a lot, because many people in the world don't see it as a problem.

(I wonder what the guy would make of me... White British hijabi who speaks French)

For the record, what other people (male or female) wear in a swimming pool doesn't bother me one bit. So long as nobody pees in it, it's all good

Utter horrid people.

OP just go now as your enroute but leave them a suitable review after your home stating their islamaphobic beliefs. It's different if he says he just can't accommodate to seperate pool for ladies only but he literally spewed hate about how the whole area doesn't want Muslims there.

Go skinny dipping and see if that offends him instead. I don't get why they're so obsessed with Burkinis over there when they're after safe or make the men wear speedos. Freedom of expression my arse.

It's not unknown that these kinds of views are prevalent especially in more rural areas of France. I would have your holiday and maybe feedback to airbnb.

In the same way when I visited Morocco and the Riad owner spoke of my 'husband' we weren't married then, just engaged, but I was wearing a ring and this man had rented us a room with a double bed, in a country where that would make people uncomfortable if we were not married. So I just said yes, my husband is driving us to Essaouira when we leave here and we carried on with the conversation about routes etc, I understood his values and beliefs are different to mine and that's ok in his culture and country.

I also didn't like the overt misogyny I experienced in parts of Marrakech and I wouldn't go back there, but I also didn't see it as my place to challenge from an ideological perspective. Absolutely when a teenager groped my bottom when I was at a cash point with now DH ten feet away I told him in no uncertain terms to get off of me, but I didn't then get into a discussion about why it's not ok to objectify and sexually assault women.

@MyOtherCarisAVauxhallZafira
Absolutely when a teenager groped my bottom when I was at a cash point with now DH ten feet away I told him in no uncertain terms to get off of me,
Bloody hell, that's appalling. I had heard that Marrakech can be bad for women, but that is awful. Sad when it's clearly such a beautiful place, I'm sure many women would love to visit but feel too put off by the misogyny.

If you want to visit Morocco Essaouira is beautiful, a lot more laid back and 'liberal' I felt very safe and comfortable there. They also have the Argan oil collectives, completely run by women! It has a bit of a hippy vibe.
Marrakech never again and I've travelled a lot. I think people who say they love it stay in the big AI hotels on the outskirts at la Palmeraie and don't leave other than maybe for an organised excursion, which isn't really my kind of holiday!

is this not laicite? If you turned up wearing a visible crucifix, sikh turban or kippah the same would happen judging ny. By rights though you're not even allowed to ask other's religion.

Some more rural areas of france taken it more seriously than others.

You have a choice, endorse this quite stringent imposement of laicite and take your holiday, or make a stand and dont go.

what you dont have a right to do is go, knowing this is the case, and then complain about it when there.

I think negative reviews etc is a really odd way to model broad-mindedness.

The holiday is - potentially - an opportunity to get to know more about people in a rural part of France, where attitudes are very different to those in metropolitan England. (It's possible to be someone who lives in a multi-cultural city and yet be, in some respects, quite narrow-minded/unaware of how life is lived elsewhere.

If you were an observant Muslim - or for that matter, an orthodox Jew - the information that he sent would be useful in terms of deciding whether the holiday was going to work or not. Though people with strong religious/cultural beliefs would normally be quite clued up in advance about the kind of accommodation that would work for them.

Perhaps if you are keen to show solidarity with Muslims in some practical way, you can simply make a substantial donation to Islamic Relief.

As you have already paid and so can't stay somewhere else I would just reply saying I wasn't Muslim just wasn't sure if it was shared and to go and enjoy my holiday and then when I got back I would leave them bad reviews mentioning their racism.

If you were an observant Muslim - or for that matter, an orthodox Jew - the information that he sent would be useful in terms of deciding whether the holiday was going to work or not.

It might have been if the owner had said upfront that he was a bigot but unfortunately the OP is already en route to the holiday house so it’s a bit late for useful information like that, which only came out by chance because she asked about the pool.

That is not laicite! It only concerns public buildings like schools, local authorities etc. Not walking around on streets or tenter properties. It's so ignorant to write stuff like this because you heard something about something, but then you have no clue.

Thats why I phrased the first part (the very first sentence) as a question.

This is how I interpreted it too!

It is possible that the previous family made a fuss about sharing the pool with males who were not of their family? He does ask if there is a specific reason why this might bother you? I think it’s not unreasonable for him to expect to be able to use his own pool in the summer?

nevertheless his second paragraph is rather nasty… in French as well as English!!

Basically, you'll be sharing the pool.

He wondered if you would be inconvenienced sharing and if so, why?

He recently refused guests (two young ladies) who were veiled. Are you English or Moslem?

He doesn't want to refuse you, but if you had any religious beliefs they could get you refused access to the property due (I think) to the ill feeling of the neighbours.

Cordially

Basically, you can expect to share the pool. As a bog standard Brit, you'll be fine.

Text back and in (terrible) French say that you were merely curious and will be happy to share.

Cher Monsieur,

Je vous ai demandé seulement des raisins de curiosité. Nous avons aucunes convictions réligeuses, et nous irons hereux de partager votre piscine.

Cordialement

Itstheendoftheworldasweknowit

Bon vacancies!

Is anyone else wondering if the OP asked the question via google translate as well. On the basis that google translate didn't do very well with the owner's reply, I also wonder what the owner actually read.
Saying that, "are you English or Muslim" is obviously racist.

I don't know why you are offended by it. I am not 'veiled' but my best friend is. And going most places with her / her family is a bloody nightmare.
There is a certain level of importance that she expects EVERYONE to accommodate and obey by.
Her family are notorious for booking stuff, then moaning it's not private / there are other people there. French are known for being more blunt. Hes probably had a bad experience and is sick of it.

I wouldn’t stay anywhere that basically said “no Muslims”. There used to be signs in London “No Jews, no blacks, no Irish” according to an older friend of mine. I would not let me or my children be part of that sort of shit.

My understanding is that the property owner has merely said “no one who isn’t prepared to share the shared pool”