To think these riots are about anti-muslim feeling more than immigration....

[SaltAndVinegar2]

...and to wonder what the rioters actually think the solution is?

I mean there are plenty of Christian immigrants and no-one is attacking churches. Inner city churches are often mostly made up of ethnic minority and immigrant people

Just watched Ed Balls interview with Zarah Sultana.
ZS: "it's important to call out these riots for being islamophobic because mosques and muslims are being targetted"
EB: "do you agree we need to control immigration"
followed by constant interruption and not allowing her to actually say anything. He came across terribly. There have been 8000 complaints about this interview!

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/ed-balls-gmb-zarah-sultana-riots-b2591311.html

These rioters want to get rid of muslims whether British or immigrant - that is the unpalatable truth. It's not about immigrants in general at all, and only partly about the ones in the hotels. It's scarily reminiscent of what I've read about the early days of the 1930s in germany before Hitler came to power.

Really interesting article.
Double standard even in France:
The government banned “oversize” Christian crosses but continued to permit the more popular cross necklace

How about attacking a mosque at the first hint that a person was brown, an immigrant and therefore must be muslim

Is this in reference to Southport?

I read one of the links and also looked up the teacher mentioned who had been beheaded.
Why do we think Muslims don't take to the streets en-mass after racist attacks in the name of Islam the way white people do after racist attacks in the name of white Britian? People doing these attacks are dragging Islam through the mud and other Muslims largely adopt a 'nothing to do with me' attitude. I’d be fucking furious , just like I am about the white racists on the streets of Britian. I'm not going to sit down shut up and let them speak for me.

Can you honestly not see the difference between something happening in your country, and something happening caused by someone you share a religion with? Especially when that religion is 20% of the global population?

I don't understand the mindset at all. It would be like asking British Christians to protest over attacks like this one.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/feb/16/wieambilla-shootings-australia-christian-terrorist-attack-queensland-police

Well what about Islamist attacks that do happen in this country?

What do you see?

I think you will find they are widely condemned by Muslims and the community more widely. E.g.

https://mcb.org.uk/collation-of-responses-to-manchester-attack/

What you are saying isn't backed by evidence.

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20230903-france-s-public-schools-will-enforce-dress-code-banning-islamic-abayas-says-macron

The French have a reasonable approach and the government is not full of right wing thugs.but careful lawmakers that are looking at society at large with due reference to their constitution

Apparently there are some that disagree but in democracies we follow the law. We are a democracy and not a theocracy.

The Black Lives Matter demos took place all over the world after the death of George Floyd. Thousands of white people on the streets.

I think you mean "thousands of people on the streets".

A bit like the anti-far right protests yesterday.

Most people don't like intolerance and racist violence tbf.

Rioters fall into one the following categories;
Racists
Thugs
Brainless morons
Thieves
Scum
All of the above

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c15ggd3v207o#:~:text=A%20vicar%20has%20called%20on,treating%20as%20a%20hate%20crime.

No I meant thousands of white people on the streets. I know there were people of all races together but my point was lots of white people didn't just take the 'I didn't do it so nothing to do with me' attitude.
I think it's great that white people (and I know lots of others, but the recent attacks were done in the name of white British people) took to the streets in huge numbers saying loud and clear that these racists do not speak for me.

Another one for @winterrabbit www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/romford-racist-police-redbridge-video-b2532188.html

Thank you so much Pandora. You are completely right. There is a huge amount of Islamaphobia in this country. We should all hang our heads in shame. Silly me thinking what a welcoming, tolerant country we are.

Sorry, I'm really struggling with the logic here because I can't see any way in which George Floyd's murder in the USA is relevant.

I'm going to leave it as I don't think its going to be helpful to either of us to pursue the conversation.

Why the jokey sarcasm? You asked for examples of Islamophobia. I gave you two very recent examples.

My point is when white people do racist attacks other white people are very quickly marching on the streets in 'no to racism' demos. It happens all the time. Last night was an example.
Edited to add, we don't see the same demos from the Muslim communities after Islamist attacks, I don't know why. I don't believe for a second these attacks have wide support, I think it is a 'nothing to do with me' view (maybe?). I certainly don't think white racist attacks are nothing to do with me though, I'm white and I think they're everything to do with me.

Agreed, and to add to this, it often seems to be non-Jewish and non-Muslim people who are centring themselves and their views in discussions about Jews and Muslims navigating the current minefield of antisemitism and Islamophobia, including dictating how and when we can talk about it.

It's particularly difficult to understand why those who profess themselves to be anti-racist and anti-fascist continuously object to any awareness and allyship being shown towards Jews. I'd question the motives of anyone who believes advocating for one minority involves dismissing the mistreatment and overriding the voices of another with claims of whataboutery in a discussion about racism and fascism. It seems odd to be stoking division if the aim is unity.

Many years ago, I remember talking to my aunt about my concerns that the news was calling terrorists 'Islamists' instead of extremists or just terrorists. I think in times of difficulty, there is a certain part of the population that want to take all their discomfort and bad feeling and blame it on someone else. Muslims have been set up to be the person they are dumped on for years. But if it was not them, it would be another group. Life is pretty grim at the moment with no improvement in sight for most people. Prime situation for this crap to flourish.

And I am so grateful. Thank you again.

I do wonder why immigrants and refugees want to come here, don't you? Given how racist and hostile the UK is.

But Muslims were on the BLM demos too Muslims did condemn the terror attacks. You cannot generalise like that, sorry. Its really unhelpful.

I’m white Danish, blue eyes. An immigrant.

In a former job role I had regular interactions with thousands of people from a variety of ethnic backgrounds but almost all working-class and got to know some of them well.

A few of them were brainwashed by Farage and Robinson and invited me to come meet them as though it was a Friday night social!

Me: ‘Kev, for some reason I think it wouldn’t be a safe place for me to go and I’d be very welcome!’
Them: ‘Oh no you’d be fine, you’re white!’

Genuine interaction, no irony, had many others like it.

I’m an immigrant but massively attract far right men for some reason (not something I’m proud of!!). My friends are joking the government should use me as a Nazi honeytrap. See also how many of them have white foreign wives/ girlfriends.

So yeah, unfortunately it’s not about being an immigrant, it’s about skin colour and religious symbols.

Gosh, your mask is really slipping now. Why ask a question if you are going to be annoyed by the answer?