Angry men problem is bigger than racism…

[anxioussister]

I was speaking to a close friend this morning who is part of the leadership at a local mosque. He was expressing despair about what the world could do with all these angry young (and not so young) men

It reminded me of the Scott Galloway quote ‘there is no one on earth so dangerous as a young man who is poor and alone’ - and by alone meaning not attached to a meaningful career, purpose or community. I think he’s right.

Obviously racist attacks are abhorrent - but what on earth is society supposed to do about all these people?

they are so angry, seem largely extremely poorly educated + unable to emotionally regulate themselves. How can they be plugged in to society so they can contribute something + feel part of something rather than just raging about what they aren’t given?

YABU - this is mainly a race issue

They has always been and will always be angry young men. You can't fix it. They need an outpouring for their general anger and these fake protests are now the flavour of the month. I doubt many of the men are actually racist, they just want an excuse to join a mob and hurl abuse and rocks at the innocent police. It's just a day out for them.

There are women involved, too but:

Male aggression and violence is a massive issue and it is on the rise.
Male aggression and violence coupled with racism is another level. Baying mobs generally don't stalk streets looking for women.

Agree

As said in house of the dragon

Wise
Words

"Men are unhappy and unhappy people Need someone to hate."

@CaptainBolt

"Yes, there is a wider issue of angry, aggressive men. Sometimes it does feel like they do nothing to help themselves, though. What's the answer? Better male role models? Men's groups? More responsibility? More loving childhoods? More disciplined childhoods? "

Yes to all of the above points. I would also add:

Loss of large manufacturing and industrial jobs which were traditionally done by poorer while working class men and which gave them a sense of community.
That poor white working class boys are the lowest performing group in education with the lowest representation at universities.
That education is sometimes not recognised as a way out of poverty and sometimes not valued by poor white working class boys, girls or parents. "I managed just fine without an education so can my kids".
The reduction in stable two parent families. There is often absent or non involved fathers that sadly creates sons who will do the same in a vicious circle.
Reduction in religious attendance which whether you agree with it or not does increase educational attainment and reduces chances of imprisonment.
A loss of hope or ambition - "I don't know anyone in my community or family will a well paying job, the odds are stacked against me so why bother trying.
Drug and alcohol addiction.
Positive discrimination in both jobs and university entrance which if you are a poor white working class boy looks and feels like plain old discrimination.
Reduction in military numbers which traditionally took a large number of poor white males.
Childhood trauma of violence, alcohol abuse, mother's introducing and changing new male partners.
Stable and secure housing.

So yes some of it is down to the individuals and some of it is down to circumstances beyond their control.

I was thinking about this and how about making it entirely voluntary say for two or three years. But afterwards the state will assist you with entry into university and pay for your entire tuition fees, much like the GI Bill in the US.

No one can complain because it's entirely voluntary.

It was ever thus, and it will be ever thus. There is always those at the bottom of society. Most are decent people, a few arent. It's akin to football supporters. It's like a culture, a belonging and going along with the crowd. I dont think the majority of those attending these riots really despise Muslims, they just want to throw bricks and break down fences, as its rebellious and feel part of some sort of tribe.

It’s a gammon problem

I grew up in a very deprived area of Nottinghamshire, we were poor, we shared our home with another family as we couldn’t afford both rent, utilities, etc in their entirety.

The secondary school I attended largely served just our estate, with the odd person from a bit further away. So the majority of children came from fairly deprived homes.

I’m yet to throw a brick through someones window, set fire to a wheelie bin, racially abuse anyone, riot in the street, assault a police officer, assault a paramedic, have a swastica tattoo, fail to brush my teeth or make a poorly spelt sign.

Aggression is likely due to shit parenting, anyone could punch someone, spit on someone etc, but people who aren’t dragged up don’t go around doing those things. The guys we’ve seen out and about are likely the ones encouraging their children to hit back, not bothering to actually parent at home, putting zero value on education and training to get a decent job. Being a violent thug is taught behaviour.

We know from schooling etc the biggest thing regarding a childs life chances is how they are parented, thats the one thing thats really really hard to change.

Some positive change was happening in areas with things like surestart centres, I think ideally more support for women in deprived areas in leaving partners would likely have quite a big beneficial impact, and where they are in social housing episodes of violence etc leading to the perp being removed from the lease so women have a safe, secure home they can stay in. Then on top of that additional funding for childcare, parenting courses and support to access vocational courses. We know that the more educated a woman is the better longterm outcomes for her children.

In the UK investment in children really needs to change, the view of children being an expensive inconvenience really isn’t a healthy one.

I’m not sure the massive sudden uptick in racial violence can be conclusively linked to social conditions and disadvantage.

i think there is a rump of people who are just pretty hardcore racist. A few dickheads catch the limelight, a bit of co-ordination by social media and pack mentality/ strength in numbers takes over - they’re like sheep and feel suddenly emboldened to go out and make a horrible fuss en masse.

I think people are going out and rioting not cos they’ve suddenly reached boiling point at being repressed/ downtrodden/ neglected, but your Nigel Farages and Steven Yaxley Lebanon’s and your local gobshite rabble rousers have seen an opportunity for causing mayhem and venting their racism, and have run with it. A change of government may also have something to do with it. Bit like testing the waters to see what they can get away with as racist little thugs under this administration.

Hah unfortunate autocorrect there. I doubt Steven YL would ever associate with Lebanon.

This is an interesting take on things.

English culture, especially around family and community, has been decimated in the last 50 years. There are groups that carry on trying to support and provide community activities and support - but it doesn't seem to be embedded in families and neighbourhoods naturally like it may have been 100 years ago.

There are very few opportunities for regular, intergenerational, community gatherings to celebrate food, life, togetherness.

I think that must depend what kind of community you live in. My family and seemingly everyone in my hometown are always at bloody family inter generational parties and fetes and blessings and god knows what.

Sorry - I am white British, as are most of my family, should have said that.

I heard a good summary on the radio yesterday. Its professional racists + disaffected angry men + bored youths.

It got me thinking about social media, including Mumsnet. Professional agitators and bots start a lot of posts.

What is preventing men from providing for their families and taking care of their children?

Any society with a huge surplus of young single men is a dangerous one.

They're not the kind of people you want to settle down with though...

Schooling is a big part of the problem.

Many of these men are not capable of achieving Cs at GCSE and need to spend years attending school feeling thick because they aren't academic.

I think a good number would benefit from starting practical qualifications as young as 12 or 13 where they can go out an be a part of a community, away from family problems and echo chamber peers. So many "naughty" boys in my school went on to do chef work or work in a trade and are thriving family men, many of whom I'd have expected to be in prison.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

Male aggression across all groups is a problem. How we tackle it I don't know. And no that doesn't mean women never commit atrocities - of course they do.

All true. And now that women have better opportunities to be economically independent fewer & fewer of them will be able to capture a woman to absorb thier anger & hate.

You have it the wrong way round.
Women were formerly brainwashed into thinking they had to subordinate themselves to a man, now they dont have to!
Men cant cope.

Definitely agree with this. I work with under 25s and a lot of them are under educated often with undiagnosed dyslexia, autism, ADHD etc. Then they find a lot of apprenticeships want under 18s and they have missed the boat. A lot do not help themselves though. Offer then a guaranteed interview for work and some can be very sniffy and turn it down if it means a bus to work or an early start.

The more lazy/low-skilled men don't have the easy out of making money on Only Fans or modelling.