To blame Nigel Farage personally for this mess.

[twopercent]

Some people are fundamentally unpleasant. We know that. Some people. a tiny minority, hold views that are unacceptable to general society. We had a system whereby they knew they were better off keeping their poison silent in their heads. Farage has given them a cloak of respectability, and a way of connecting with other likeminded psychos. And he has organised them. Now look where we are.

It is going to be interesting to see how many people convicted for these riots are the same people convicted in 2011. Some people will just jump on any excuse to join in and stir up disorder.

These people would be better off finding a sporting outlet for their energy and aggression, and learning to discipline it. But Farage has kicked it all up, purely because he needed personal supporters for personal power, and saw this demographic as an untapped source of numbers.

he is certainly partly to blame

he has always been an agitator he has no real interest in being an MP or even a leader of a party it’s too much hard work. What he really wants to do is media interviews, campaign and stir up hatred

there will always be people who agree with him, he is the reason we had Brexit, the reason why there is such anti Muslim/South Asian feeling at the moment

unfortunately because of his influence he can’t be ignored but he needs to be constantly called out, challenged and debates with

@Clavinova that's because I know quite a few who admit they didn't- my father in law thinks it's an absolute crock of shit and he's 84-as does my 'high up' police relative - an absolute pile of prime bull shit as he described it - I know a few in business too- one said he was too embarrassed to admit he voted leave for many years but recently said he did and 'thought' we would get a Norway type situation and he saw advantages in that - another who did say he voted leave at time (banker) he too thought it would be a Norway scenario and also admitted to 'making a few bob' on betting on sterling falls.

It's not as simple as you thinking everyone knew exactly what they would get. Even Farage said 'we too could be like Norway' -

Crikeyalmighty
talk about the Dublin agreement for returning people

"In 2017 under the Dublin Regulation 314 migrants were transferred out of the UK and 461 migrants were transferred to the UK. The year before the numbers were 362 and 558. Dublin didn't work. Labour aren't serious."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1800425/yvette-cooper-labour-migrant-returns-deal-eu

Crikeyalmighty
Even Farage said 'we too could be like Norway'

Maybe in 2012 - 2014. Farage was quite clear in an interview with Andrew Marr in November 2015, then interviews with the BBC and Channel 4 in February 2016 that he wanted to leave the single market.

And yet here is a video of him and other Leave campaigners saying otherwise.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/open-britain-video-single-market-nigel-farage-anna-soubry_uk_582ce0a0e4b09025ba310fce

If you're saying that we could be like Norway, and Norway are in the single market, it's no wonder people thought that staying in the single market was an option.

Hannan was confused....

@noblegiraffe how @Clavinova expects the average 'not that political' voter to have kept up with the myriad of 'leave EU' different voices I'm not sure - looking at the middle aged rioters this week I doubt they paid much attention economically over and above the 'less forriners' bit

noblegiraffe
Commenting on the sudden change of heart, Anna Soubry MP argued that the referendum vote had given a mandate for Brexit, but not one to pursue a “hard, destructive Brexit”. (Your Huff link)

Anna Soubry was clearly being disingenuous about Farage's sudden change of heart. She was interviewed jointly with Nigel Farage on Channel 4 News in one of my earlier links - February 2016;

Farage also said earlier in a debate with Soubry on Channel 4 News that he wants the UK to be "independent, self-governing, making our own laws", and not a part of the European Single Market and political union which forbids "us from making our own trade deals".

Don't forget the fish. Fishermen would be filling their nets constantly courtesy of Nige. Bit of a red herring wasn't it Nige? Spreading misinformation like you did last week about Southport. I hope it catches up with you.

Hannan's quote is from early 2015 - more than a year before the referendum vote took place. Why did you base your vote on something Daniel Hannan said in 2015 and not listen to what Gove, Farage and Cameron said in 2016? Hannan is not that well known in any case.

If I find something Keir Starmer said a year ago are you going to say you based your election vote on what he said then?

And yet he was also banging on about being like Norway, Clav

It’s like he was trying to get people to vote leave by appealing to as many people as possible by presenting them with contradictory options as if that was the plan.

Saying what he thinks people wants to hear.

"Most of your quotes appear to be not relevant to the actual vote or taken out of context, e.g. Johnson's Erasmus quote is from 2020, Daniel Hannan's quote is from early 2015, not 2016, Gove's quote is taken out of context - he meant we had control of when to trigger Article 50. "

I don’t think anyone is seriously suggesting that if Britain withdraws from political structures in Brussels we would be moving ourselves from that Common Market - June 2016.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/daniel-hannan-brexit-will-be-a-gentle-process/

Note the hilarious title.

At least Hannan acknowledges now that we should have stayed in the single market - then again what fool wouldn't say that?

Johnson obviously lied to Erasmus students and organisers in 2020z

As for Gove holding all the cards in triggering Article 50 - threatening to burn down your own house - shame that didn't include having an actual plan.

And the rest of "the easiest deal in history" club were just epically deluded or crap at their jobs.

I didn’t base my vote on trusting anything Hannan said, Clav, because Hannan, Farage, Gove, Johnson and co are a bunch of lying shithead grifters. It’s just a pity that other people were taken in by them.

The average 'not that political' voter would have paid attention to the big beasts like Gove, Farage and Cameron in 2016 and not search out obscure quotes from 2015 or earlier - some from people they've never heard of.

I think you should stop reading the Daily Mail. It has skewed your view of immigration.

Notonthestairs
Johnson obviously lied to Erasmus students and organisers in 2020

The Johnson government wanted to join the Erasmus scheme at the right price - the EU wanted £2 billion for a scheme that benefitted twice as many students from the EU as UK students.

Agree he’s awful. Legal migration is high because they (tories-boris) made it so

The Labour party have messed up so badly within a month of getting in that there are riots in the streets, so that's Nigel Farage's fault. Okay then.

I think you are overestimating how much attention your normal person pays to any politician.

You know that Breaking Point posters and Facebook ads about Turkey would have had more impact than a speech by Gove.

It's the remain/rejoin lot who are lying to you now - claiming that no one said anything about leaving the single market when quite clearly they did.

I don’t think the Labour Party can be blamed for the murder of the girls in Southport, but Farage can certainly be held responsible for amplifying disinformation about the murderer.

Oh give over Hannan was all over the media. He'd been a very vocal proponent of Brexit for years

Gove told Marr that we'd have access to the single market - without defining what that meant.

And they said things about Norway too.

There was no clear plan, and deliberately so.

19 April 2016
Thanks to Michael Gove we know that Britain's future outside the EU would also be outside the single market.

So we can rule out our future looking like Norway or Iceland: both outside the EU but both members of the European Economic Area which pay for access to the single market and accept free movement of workers.

Vote Leave's future plan for the UK would be outside the EU and outside the EEA.

https://www.itv.com/news/2016-04-19/michael-gove-says-britains-future-outside-the-eu-would-also-be-outside-the-single-market-but-what-does-that-mean

^So we can rule out our future looking like Norway or Iceland: both outside the EU but both members of the European Economic Area which pay for access to the single market^

And yet in May 2016 Gove said that we should have access to the single market.