To think the anti-immigrations have BEEN "heard"?

[dropoutin]

I posted something like this on one of the riot threads but it ws locked soon after.

Is anyone else getting really bored of people justifying racism, terror, violence and destruction by insisting how important it is that those who imagine asylum seekers are responsible for the country's problem are "heard".

Little reminder: It's exactly that particular obsession that led to the Brexit referendum in 2016, and the most radical - and destructive - political change of recent times.

There were several years in which the country barely discussed anything else. Farage and Johnson got to tell you in great detail how the reason you're poor is because of the black family down the road. And you got the choice of believing them, or not. You even got to make Johnson PM so he could "get Brexit done" and "level up" your community.

You've been taken for a ride. Asylum seekers rriving irregularly (via small boats etc) make up less than 5% of total immigration, which is coming down after peaking in 2022 (partly due to the Ukraine war, and other factors). Neither Tories nor Labour are going to radically reduce immigration because anyone having to ACTUALLY run the country can see that doing so will exacerbate the demographic time-bomb, reduce economic activity and decimate the NHS. You're poor because of 14 years of Conservative economic policy, not because of anyone's skin colour or passport.

Meanwhile: How many of us get to have a national referendum tailored around our favourite policy hobbyhorse? When is my referendum on industrial relations? On housing and land ownership? On the House of Lords? When do I get to be "heard"? Being heard doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you, or that you get to go out and beat up brown people because things aren't working out the way you imagined they would.

It's not that you haven't been heard. It's just that you were wrong.

@WhysEverythingABallAche if you speak English and have been brought up in a country which was a British colony until 1950s with an English language education system, why would you go to another country? If you're a Pakistani or Indian Christian, who have suffered dreadful persecution.
Or you're a Syrian Kurd who were supported by the UK but now the war is "over" you'll be much less welcome. Or if you are an Afghan woman escaping the Taliban - you'll come to a country you were told was on your side.
Most of these women will not have a passport and won't be able to enter the country legally because even if they have a passport they will not have a visa issued by their own government.
We also have a legal requirement to give refuge to asylum seekers and refugees and you should heartily wish that you will never need to flee your home in fear of your life.
If we carry on justifying outright fascism, even by saying aw they're not all that bad, reasonable concerns etc that's where the UK is heading. Comment on X about " sympathisers" is terrifying.

@EasternStandard

Do you have a particular policy in mind?

👏👏

The rioters are violent morons.

However, despite opinion polls showing that large majorities want lower levels of immigration, the reality is that nothing concrete has been done.

People have been heard, but they've not been listened to. They've been lied to instead, with promises that politicians either couldn't or wouldn't keep. Gordon Brown's 'British jobs for British workers.' Cameron's 100k target. Boris's 'oven-ready Brexit'. The Rwanda nonsense.

I just hope the current government can start getting a grip on things. At least they seem to be honest about the state of the country l, and haven't made a load of false promises.

My preference has always been for the Aus system

Rn I’m wondering how bad it’ll get here before people choose the same

Thanks for flagging up the UK stats for sexual offences. For the sake of keeping this short, look at the section showing rape of a female aged 16 and the latest stats for 2016. In that year there were 664 men in total men convicted of rape, of whom 364 were white and 269 were non-white, and 116 were not stated. So 548 rapes where we can identify the ethnicity of the perpetrator.

Of those, 50 were by Asian men. Given only 6% of the UK population is Asian that is a disproportionately high number. White men, on the other hand, make up 82% of the male population but accounted for just 66% of the rapes that year.

Overall, non white men accounted for 153 of those 548 total rapes where ethnicity is known, which is 28%. Yet the non-white population of the UK is 18%.
It is patently false to claim women are at more risk from white men.

Do you have access to more recent UK figures?

Of course I have. The rioting is new and a very very small minority of the population. A larger group has been demanding to be "heard" on the issues of immigration for ever. I think they have been heard loud and clear. Disproportionately, in my opinion, and to great detriment (Brexit, Tory governments cutting public services to the bone, Farage in parliament).

The video I posted earlier at a protest (not riot) where interviewer went to both sides- in Nottingham - showed:
On one side (the "anti racists") - people with probably good intentions who worked in public swctor who get most of their info from BBC/Guardian. Spouted stuff they had got from there (no one is illegal etc). Thought the other side was EDL/hated immigrants. In love with the idea of themselves as allies/freedom fighters.
On other side normal people of all races with concerns, frustrated at their concerns not being acted on, thought other side was deluded.

Unfortunately our "leaders" are in the first group, never listen or act on concerns held by the majority for far less immigration and demonise them as far right. Led by Keir Starmer who has enriched himself as a human rights lawyer and indeed was active in campaigning to entitle asylum seekers to benefits which has made uk a magnet across Europe. He's incapable of uniting people and is making things 10 times worse. Managed to set up 24 hours to jail (white) rioters , sympathises with non white law breakers. Why didn't he use those resources to ramp up processing asylum seekers??? Things still get alot worse, I've never been so depressed about the UK.

People had their opportunity to get their voices heard and listened to and the majority did not vote reform. That is something you should be listening to.

Post brexit people were told to respect democracy, well why don't you respect it now.

Are all asylum seekers asian then?

Unbelievable.

Hi, can I ask where those sex offences statistics are from, please?

You're right. It would appear those figures show elevated numbers of black and asian rapists - though, particularly given they're a small sample from year to year, I wouldn't say by such an extent to justify the kind of moral panic one often hears.

I don't say this to prove any particular point as one would need to look at the whole picture in more detail and analyse properly, but it's interesting to note the differences across different categories. In particular, as you look at the categories of offences against younger victims, the proportion of black and asian perpetrators often shrinks to a smaller percentage than population average. Particularly for offences against under 13s.

There appears to be more black and asian rapists but fewer black and asian pedophiles. But again, that's just at a rough first look.

Only 6% of the UK population is Asian

Where did you get that stat from?

Yes, it would be interesting to see proper statistical analysis across the board. If anything those percentages for asian and non-white men are probably skewed down, given in 2016 they would have been a smaller percentage of the total population and I was using today's population figures.

To be honest, I would be surprised to see the UK data hugely out of line with data from other European countries with high immigration levels, though I guess there might be differences in ease of reporting crime, how the police handle sexual offences, willingness to prosecute and so on. I do think it's crucial we have the right data. If mass immigration does pose a risk to women and children in particular, we should know about it. I fear after the 'Cologne' attacks where over 1,200 women were assaulted, the tendency has been to sweep it under the carpet.

https://mcb.org.uk/2021-census-as-uk-population-grows-so-do-british-muslim-communities/

The rape statistics divided into the following categories: asian, black, mixed, Chinese and other. So I had to assume that by Asian they meant Pakistani and Bangladeshi muslims, not other ethnicities.

where does is say the asian population of the uk is 6%? the statistic you've used to suggest asian people commit a disproportionate amount of rapes

I've just explained that.

Why don't we instead look at the stats for Sexual activitiy with a child under 16 which show that, where ethnicity was known, 92.2% of offenders were white.

Or how about the stats for Abuse of children through prostitution and pornography which show 94.7% of offenders were white.

Based on those stats it's patently false to say that children aren't at risk from white men, and if we use the typical right wing logic of "one bad apple = a spoiled cart" then we must conclude that all white people are a problem when it comes to sexual abuse of children.

There are 46 different offences listed in that spreadsheet and you've chosen to focus in on that specific measure. I wonder why that was?

As they say there are lies, damned lies and statistics.

no you haven't. point out where in that link it says the the asian population of the uk is 6% the statistic you've used to suggest asian people commit a disproportionate amount of rapes.

you do realise spreading misinformation is a hate crime and you can be prosecuted for it?

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/uk-population-by-ethnicity/national-and-regional-populations/population-of-england-and-wales/latest/

• according to the 2021 Census, the total population of England and Wales was 59.6 million, and 81.7% of the population was white
• people from Asian ethnic groups made up the second largest percentage of the population (9.3%), followed by black (4.0%), mixed (2.9%) and other (2.1%) ethnic groups
• out of the 19 ethnic groups, white British people made up the largest percentage of the population (74.4%), followed by people in the white 'other' (6.2%) and Indian (3.1%) ethnic groups
• from 2011 to 2021, the percentage of people in the white British ethnic group went down from 80.5% to 74.4%
• the percentage of people in the white 'other' ethnic group went up from 4.4% to 6.2% – the largest percentage point increase out of all ethnic groups
• the number of people who identified as ‘any other ethnic background’ went up from 333,100 to 923,800

Because my previous post gave rape and sexual assault stats from Germany and Sweden which focussed on sexual assaults on adult women. So I was looking specifically at that.

What an utterly ignorant comment.

Well if all these people have been heard and are just idiots it's time we moved the asylum hotels to Guildford or St Alban's then we're there is a much better class of people who will be more welcoming. The simple answer then is to put them in more affluent areas.

I fundamentally disagree with the kind of violent action we've seen. But the OP said people have been heard and I'm wondering how that actually happened when the local community object to a hotel for single men (which is very different to families) but then get it anyway this has actually happened.

The question wasn't 'is this action represensible?' in which case it's a much simpler answer.

A proper analysis would take into account geography and age in relation to the crimes

It's pointless to draw conclusions on ethnicity in relation to crime based on overall percentages of the uk if the majority of those crimes are committed by young people in cities. You would have to weight ethnicity according to that and not include 70 year olds living in seaside towns for example

This is why it's best left to people who actually analyse these things and not people who can't even get the percentage of asian people in the uk correct in the first place.

But your German stats were for sexual assaults (ranging from groping to gang-rape ) by asylum seekers between 2015 and 2023. It also said that these were suspects, with no mention of whether they were convicted or of their ethnicity.

So why would you think using just rape convictions by ethnicity stats for 2016 is a legitimate comparison?

And any comment on the facr we've shown that white people are more likely to be paedophiles?