To wonder why our value is defined by money?

[Abigail47]

I was just wondering why everyone's value is defined by how money they have.

When I went to school, all of the most popular girls were from rich families. If your dad was wealthy , you were popular. The rich girls would only hang around with the othe rich girls.

If you were less rich they wouldn't talk to you. If you were poor or from a single parent family, they definitely wouldn't talk to you.

It made me think from an early age: why is my worth/ or anyone's worth defined by how much money I have. It seems so ridiculous.

There are so many other things that add up a person's worth: such as how kind they are, how good they are at different things etc.

Similarly when I went to college, the rich people would only hang around with each other.

I lived in a small town in England growing up, and again, it was always divided by money. The rich people would only really be friends with each other.

I then moved to London, which is a lot more diverse and multicultural, however you still get wealth snobbery in some of the workplaces. And even though in the workplaces, everyone talks to each other.

After work, and in hobbies, I've seen the same thing: that the really rich people in London will only be friends with other really rich people.

I mean is it not all a bit ridiculous. How is our worth tied to money? There are so many othe things that make a human valuable.

Yet alot of people seem to think of money over everything else

You worth is only defined your wealth if you believe that to be true. I do not. Although I do have some hang ups about how much people like me so we all have our own thing that we struggle with.

It's easily observed and measured?

Capitalism

It's not what I've experienced at all, and no one would know what I'm worth or earn because I don't tell them.

I think this probably says more about the circles you move in, than society as a whole.

Capitalism

And money talks... it's a language we all understand. Walk into any crowded place - a bar or a school - in the world, place a tenner on the floor and everyone knows what it is.

I've lived in a lot of different circles.

This definitely exists. Everywhere.

I was just reading a thread on here on mumsnet last week, where a school mum said that she was left out at the school gates because she wasn't as rich as the other mothers. And they wouldn't speak to her

Yes I agree we live in a very capitalistic materialistic society.

It just seems its very extreme these days.

Like money is not the only thing in life

Capitalism...
It's often easier to mix with people of a similar economic level. Someone poor wouldn't be able to do things that cost a lot of money so move in different circles.

If you're struggling to put food on the table then you're not out socialising or doing hobbies that people more affluent are.

Poorer children get less opportunities than rich children. Thus can mean differences in confidence which affects socialising.

Perhaps you've tried too hard to 'get in' with the rich crowd because you feel worth is tied to money?

You are confusing 2 different things:

The rich girls would only hang around with the othe rich girls.
It makes sense to spend time with similar people. Most of us do have friends from all kind of backgrounds, that's true, but its a different relationship when you have to be careful about what you say, and when you can discuss holidays or any expense freely because you are on similar financial levels.

If your dad was wealthy , you were popular.
because people consider that success is measured by wealth?

Whilst it is not a personal experience of mine it’s probably partly a case of birds of a feather.

You said "it makes sense to spend time with similar people.

But money is only one very small thing that you have in common with other people.

A rich girl who loves painting and art has that in common with a poor girl who loves painting and art.

It's not about having things in common I think, it's snobbery. And its cruel. You see it everywhere in society these days.

People are defined by money.

And the richer people are usually the cruellest ones. They look down on and leave out the poorer more unfortunate people

Your second point.

How is success measured by wealth though.

So many things affect people's wealth.

You could be in a successful wealthy family, then the father could decide to have an affair and leave the mother.

All of a sudden , the children are poor and are being brought up by a poor single mother.

Success and wealth is down to luck and circumstances a lot of the time

Yes, capitalism.

All that matters is money; how much you have; how much you make; the trappings of wealth. To some.

It's not how I value my own worth nor anyone else's.

I find a focus on wealth/income/money to be shallow and dull. I'm really not bothered about, or interested in hearing about, other people's investments, cost of their home renovations or their financial planning but some people do love to share!

Of course, there are those who don't share what they earn etc. Their money is not the most interesting thing about them and they know that. People who don't measure their or anyone else's worth/value by money (whatever their personal financial situation) are so much nicer.

A rich girl who loves painting and art has that in common with a poor girl who loves painting and art.

she does
but she can go travelling and visit any museum in the world
she can purchase expensive art
she has access to any expensive art supplies she wants
she can take expensive art classes

and the list goes on. The other one cannot.

So yes, of course you can have shared interests with anyone, but what would be cruel would be forgetting that the other one has very limited resources. 2 rich girls who love painting and art have a much easier relationship.

The easy answer is capitalism. It’s observable, measurable and everyone can be easily ranked.

The real answer is no, that’s not really true. King Charles has more money than the population of a town, but is he worth more as a person than all those people? No, he isn’t. He’s just a bloke who was born into a particular family.

What makes a person successful or valuable depends on your personal values. I know people much better off and much worse off financially, and I don’t rank them as successes based on that. I’m sure they don’t do so either.

As for socialising - it’s certainly easier to stick to the same financial stratum because you can afford the same leisure activities and lifestyle. You probably live in similar areas or work in similar fields so have overlapping acquaintances and experiences. But it’s no more important than that.

Do you not think what you're saying is heartless?

So you would hang around with one person just because she can afford to buy expensive art, over a person who can't afford to buy expensive art?

Like I think that's a bit shocking.

It just shows how deeply money is ingrained into people.

They see money before anything else

People with money don’t want to lose it or the advantages it gives so they stick together.

Where did I say I wouldn't hang around with anyone?

I said it was easier, and it makes sense for people to be with similar for all the reasons I gave.

What's shocking is pretending you could discuss how excited you are to go to xyz exhibition of your favourite artist in New York or Paris when your friend relies on food bank. I am not saying you can't be friends, but there are a lot of things you cannot do together.

Of course money matters. If nothing else, it's freedom and it makes everything easier.

Just using what you said as an example then.
Let's talk about the teenage age. It's not even the teenagers money. It's the parents money.

You said , (and i presume that you are rich from what youve said)

that it is just easier for rich girls to hang around together because they can afford more things.

What about the poor girl that's left out of a friendship then, because you said she can't afford the same things. Do you feel bad for leaving her out?

Couldn't you be friends with her anyway, and just do the more expensive things with the rich friend and do other things, like go for a walk in the park with the poorer friend? It's not all about money

I sometimes feel like rich people just refuse to hang around with poorer people as they feel it will drag them down from their rich society. That to stay rich they must only hang around with other rich people

You said it was easier for rich people too hang around with rich people.

I'm pointing out that in itself is a bit of a heartless thing to say.

I've been richer and poorer at different times in my life.

When I was richer, I still hung around with people who at that time were poorer than me.

You really don't know this story is true though. DS's class has 3 single mothers, none of whom earn a great deal. 1 is a friend, 1 is sweet to chat to by the gates, and then the last 1 I smile politely or avoid where possible because she's thoroughly unpleasant. I'm sure she'd tell you she's nothing but charm and not realise many of us have heard her comments to her mum/ mates in the past, because she's so self-absorbed she doesn't notice others.

People often hang out with those they already know, and that reinforces over the years. The rich girls may have parents who are close, or have met up on holidays, so they are just closer. I have friends of all different wealth levels; similarity of wealth does happen more often but it doesn't always hold true. I don't know why it worries you so much though, even if it was a fixed rule there would be more people with lower wealth who you could be mates with, so why the angst and not just be friends with those you fit best with?

I think that the older we get the more we realise that actually money isn’t the right measure, but it takes people a while to get to this view. Often the people I like and respect most don’t have loads of money but bring a huge amount of value to the lives of others. They are hardworking, kind, humble and helpful.

It wasn't like that at my school. Friendships were based on people being like minded. Same for my dc. None of my friendships have been based on money so it's not something I think about.

@Abigail47

And the richer people are usually the cruellest ones. They look down on and leave out the poorer more unfortunate people
I wouldn't call the rioters rich