To wonder why our value is defined by money?

[Abigail47]

I was just wondering why everyone's value is defined by how money they have.

When I went to school, all of the most popular girls were from rich families. If your dad was wealthy , you were popular. The rich girls would only hang around with the othe rich girls.

If you were less rich they wouldn't talk to you. If you were poor or from a single parent family, they definitely wouldn't talk to you.

It made me think from an early age: why is my worth/ or anyone's worth defined by how much money I have. It seems so ridiculous.

There are so many other things that add up a person's worth: such as how kind they are, how good they are at different things etc.

Similarly when I went to college, the rich people would only hang around with each other.

I lived in a small town in England growing up, and again, it was always divided by money. The rich people would only really be friends with each other.

I then moved to London, which is a lot more diverse and multicultural, however you still get wealth snobbery in some of the workplaces. And even though in the workplaces, everyone talks to each other.

After work, and in hobbies, I've seen the same thing: that the really rich people in London will only be friends with other really rich people.

I mean is it not all a bit ridiculous. How is our worth tied to money? There are so many othe things that make a human valuable.

Yet alot of people seem to think of money over everything else

Wealth certainly mattered in our school - if you could afford the right clothes , afford the right holidays

And I doubt that has changed

I'm really interested in this, although I realise it's slightly different to the OP.

I'm currently struggling in a job which I hate, but which brings in good money. I would not and never have judged people's worth on their money/income, I grew up in a low income family and have been there. However, I do find that I judge myself and my value on money. I'm petrified of going back to how I grew up and so I'm sticking in a job that I hate and makes me unwell because of that anxiety and fear. Is this some kind of internalised capitalism leading to golden handcuffs? I try to be kinder to myself, then read a pension thread and become convinced I'm behind or something.

around here, "rich" kids go to private schools, "not so rich" kids go to state schools

They don't actually mix anyway

Do you maybe just see the bad in wealth though? I’ve definitely seen both, I’ve seen bullying by the ‘we’re better than you’ rich, but it doesn’t stand out as more than the ‘who do you think you are?’ crowd.

We weren’t rich, and in school most of us were middle with a few really really rich, but from a certain area people perceived as well off- I get regular smirks and comments, my first year in a job I had where we live now involved so many ‘you wouldn’t know anything about that’ about nearly anything everyday. I was called spoilt because I told them we went to the pantomime sometimes at Christmas, they assumed we went on foreign holidays (we didn’t), made jokes about how we never would have to worry about x or y, and when I said I once worked with horses the roll of eyes was nearly funny😅🙈

ps quoting one mn post about school mums is nothing- pretty big assumption to think that goes on everywhere

People are drawn together usually by shared experiences and interests.

It makes sense if you hobby is skiing in the swiss alps you are more likely to meet/make friends/have something in common with those who do the same, whereas if your hobby is the local scout group/community football etc you are more likely to make friends there.

If a shared interest is free then a friendship is possible. For example, my niece who is your average, NMW, council estate working class who left school with no qualification and also friendly, non judgmental, strong and generous (with her time), is friends with a multi-millionaire celebrity's wife (who also owns her own successful business) that she bumped into at her hairdressers a year or so ago and they just hit it off. Financially and intellectually they are poles apart. Their shared interests are dogs, similar aged dc and they enjoy similar (cheap!) activities with the dogs and dc (outdoors, parks, walks whatever the weather etc) and get on like a house on fire, text each other regularly and meet up once or twice a month. Money is not a factor in the relationship they have because the shared interests are free.

Of course there are some people, who I would think would be a minority, who value others/or feel intimidated by others purely based on their bank balance, those people are not worth the head space.

I believe humans are hardwired to be divisive. Look at very young children (there was a programme that watched them playing - can’t remember the name). Even when they are in a fairly homogeneous group, they soon find differences which become reasons to subdivide and dislike other sub groups.

Adults are the same they just try to be a bit more sophisticated about it. But we still look for people who are different to us and separate ourselves from them and in that separation see ourselves as better than them.

Money is an easily identified difference as is appearance and in some ways religion. But it boils down to the same thing as not being friends with Stella because she smells of wee.

I don't think most of us do value people based on how much money they've got.

During Covid, we weren't all standing on the doorstep clapping for millionaires.

Social programming

Yes but a rich girls who loves painting and art might want to book a weekend or art appreciation in Florence and expect to stay in 5 star hotel and dine in the best restaurants which the poor girl cannot afford to join in. Do you honestly not see how difficult it might make maintaining a friendship with someone?
One of my friends is very wealthy. I vividly remember her telling me "oh, you can JUST get a cab on the way back" when we were discussing a night out in an area without 24h transport links. No, Kate, I can't JUST take a £200 taxi home.

Likewise, can't say I've experienced it at all. Back in my school days, I don't remember even thinking about which friends/classmates had more money and which were poorer. We all just muddled in together as far as I remember. I don't recall any particular instances of some pupils showing off more expensive trainers or bags etc. Presumably some had more expensive things than others, but it just wasn't on my radar. I was more concerned about being bullied, and I can categorically state that most of my bullies weren't rich - they were mostly from the council estate and just roamed the school as a gang.

Same in adult life, work-life etc. Yes, some people I've known have shown the image of having more money, i.e. bigger house, new cars, etc., but I've known from an early age that it can be all smoke and mirrors with debts/leases/loans etc., so I've never immediately thought someone was rich just because they were driving a new BMW. Some of the actual genuine "rich" people I've known have actually lived a pretty frugal life (old cars, small house, etc)., and I've only known they're so rich because I've seen their bank statements/pass books etc when doing their tax returns!

Personally, I think there's too much emphasis on image etc - it's no indication of the actual wealth of someone - these days it's easy to "fake it" in many ways.

Birds of a feather flock together.

How are odd, there were families of many high net worth individuals at my school and no one gave a moments thought to it?
People who liked each other, liked it each other.
Why would you get on with someone just because they had a large house?

You can’t be friends with everyone. That isn’t excluding people, that’s just life.

You are simply much more likely to be friends with someone you have more in common with. Including similar backgrounds.

and it is absolutely the same with people who aren’t ‘rich’.

Not in my family it circle it's not. And when people like that have come into our lives, they soon leave again when they realise that their Bs is not wanted.

During Covid, we weren't all standing on the doorstep clapping for millionaires.

No we just spent loads of money online which the likes of Amazon passed onto its shareholders as opposed to increasing wages. And low interest rates boosted assets which is why the richer are now richer post pandemic.

I disagree that it is anything to do with having things in common with people.

It is snobbery and class based division.

And it is the poor people who are already suffering in life, who end up suffering even more.

I remember joining a choir in the small town next to the small town in england that I lived in. There was the height of snobbery in that town. I joined the choir, and the older women came over to me and asked what I worked at. And then they said oh "and who are your parents, what do they do". After I answered , one woman looked scornful, and just turned and walked away from me.
They wouldn't speak to me at all. All of the rich people stuck together and simple wouldn't even speak to the 'poorer people. ' poverty is relative as at that time, I had okay money, but they still judged me and looked down on my as my parents didn't have as good jobs as their parents had.

My friend who joined the choir with me told me that she couldn't do it anymore after a couple of weeks, as they were so frosty and cold to us. She wanted to leave.

I remember crying to a man I knew in a different group about this. He had actually been born in an extremely poor family and was then adopted into a very rich family, so he was good to talk to about stuff like this, as he had a lot of insight.

I said to him, "why are they so cold and cruel". It's not all about money. I wanted to sing.

He said " I can tell you exactly why they are like that. I can tell you about their mindset. They won't talk to you because they don't want to 'dilute ' their wealth. They feel that talking to anyone that they see as poor, drags them down, lowers their status, and they don't want to even be seen talking to poorer people. To feel rich they will only talk to rich people."

that sounds like a bad movie script.

@Abigail47 you seem to be weirdly fixated on your own narrative. Why post in AIBU if you are not prepared to shift from your position and consider a different viewpoint?
And why are you being so patronising towards "poor people" who supposedly "suffer" from this terrible injustice. I grew up poor, I have never experienced what you are talking about. I have rich friends and I don't always want/able to join in with things they want to do even when they offer to pay for me. The decision is entirely mine and it's bloody offensive to me that you think I am suffering as a result.

Really? How immature of you to dismiss other peoples experiences.

Only some people think that way and to a great extent you choose to collude or not. The 'popular girls' were popular with each other and other rich people. There was absolutely no need for them to be popular with you, as you were at perfect liberty to make friends with less well off people, who would then be popular with you and you with them. Yes, some of the world prizes wealth more highly than kindness, intelligence, humour, and other positive traits. But I don't and wouldn't entertain those who did, so its nothing to do with my life. Stop letting it be part of yours.

I have never seen any OP shift from their viewpoint on here. Ever.

I never said I speak for "all poor people".

I said that I'm speaking about my own experiences.

And I also work in a school, and I see the poorer children constantly being left out.

Which is really infuriating. I've seen the children cry about it.

It's an unfair society.

The young girls that both love art is a good example. Imagine being taken to art galleries around the world? I love art galleries, my family never ever took me overseas or even had the money to travel to a gallery in the UK but now as an adult I have indulged that love and have also had art classes, the love of it unfortunately doesn’t mean I have talent but it’s enjoyable.

It is easier to be friendly with people you have more in common with as there is a familiar link but some people are more chameleon like. I am really good at this as is my DS.

Same here... I can make a guess, I suppose, about a person's wealth, but for all I know he might be living at the poverty level because he's a gambler.

A person's wealth is just not an indicator of value at all.

I disagree with you generalising your own, and pretending that "rich people" - I am guessing richER than you all behave and think in a certain manner.

That's not my experience at all.

I am also curious what school has very wealthy and very poor children. Very wealthy families tend to send kids to private school, and state school have catchment areas. it's not that common to have such a massive gap between income, is it?

There are countless threads on here that highlight difficulties that can very easily arise between friends of differing socioeconomic status. Just on that level alone, predominantly mixing with those on a similar level to you is one way to avoid those difficulties.

Also, humans are a species that are both tribal and hierarchical, the latter often being an expression of the former. It isn’t exclusive to capitalism, incidentally, because capitalism too is a way of expressing those behaviors (and arguably superior to, say, feudalism, in the potential for social mobility. Additionally, this same structure is present in socialist/communist societies). In all societies, those that have the most in terms of resources, invariably dominate.