Are people on Mumsnet secretly racist or what?

[2024wtf]

So many posters not being called out. They say blatantly racist things and back it up with "You can't keep shutting us down by calling us racist". It's because you're a racist assh*le.

Comments aren't even being deleted. Last month, you called YOURSELF a Karen you'll have pages and pages of people telling you off.

I'm married to an Eastern European, I have campaigned for racial equality and attended events at Mosques more frequently than church.

I didn't vote last election but don't believe Reform are racist, don't believe Nigel Farage is bad. I have commented on this multiple times on here. I think the UKs immigration policy is unsustainable and think those people who call Reform racist have almost been brainwashed - it's not wrong to question levels of immigration in the UK.

We averaged 750,000 net migrants in each of the last two years. France and Germany had less than 200,000. The USA had around a million. It's not racist to question that number.

We have many immigrants into the UK who don't share the same values as us. They don't believe in the rights of women in the same way people born in the UK do. It's not racist to question whether this is bad for the UK.

It's not racist to question the level of crime being committed by migrants in the UK. The government don't collect the statistics so there is no evidence. In other European countries they do collect the statistics and migrants are responsible for significantly more crime per head than people born in those countries. It's not racist to have concerns about this.

I also question whether there is a two tier punishment system in the UK. Whether that is true or not there is a widespread lack of trust in the fairness of the system - that undermines our judicial and policing system.

Of course, because there are loads of racist people in the UK. I'm Arab; my best friend's parents are racist. They dont believe they're racist because there are individual POC they interact with whom they think are alright, like me, but they are completely capable of believing two contradictory things at the same time. They have certain beliefs about immigrants and about Arabs. My existence directly contradicts these beliefs (I think the fact my family is not Muslim but nominally Catholic was a bit of a shocker to them....not sure where they think Christianity originated but that's by the by). They know me. Apparently they quite like me. Their beliefs about Arabs I'm general remain resolutely intact.

As an asian person a lot of this is quite personal to me but I try to stay objective about it. I do think some people are racist but I also think at the same time it’s reasonable to have concerns about some things. I actually do believe two tier policing exists, it was really clear when women's rights activists were being targeted by TRA’s (threats, harassment etc) and women were pretty much expected to suck it up because TRA’s were considered to be the “vulnerable” group. So i can well believe that people are treated with kid gloves sometimes. The guys from manchester airport haven’t even been charged yet. There were convoys with Palestinian flags who went through predominantly Jewish areas shouting “fuck the Jews, rape their daughters”, charges were dropped despite it being videoed. Equally a white man slashes a woman who turns down his advances and he gets a suspended sentence.

I pop over to the middle east conflict boards and often see conspiracy theories about Jewish people (zionist is used but you know what some of these people really mean, reasonable criticism of Israel is not what I’m talking about). That makes me feel really sad because it does seem like racism against this group is fine but not anyone else.

I do think there are problems with some communities and we aren’t always very honest about it for fear of stigmatising people. But if we tell the truth and tackle it appropriately then I think we make more progress. people need to be clearly held to account for their actions, clearly theres a breakdown in trust that the establishment is behaving in a way which is objective. I do think we should be able to discuss that rationally.

I am absolutely not justifying the rioting, I think they are scum and are criminals. it’s fucking scary being an ethnic minority right now. I also think that the muslim guys I saw beating a bloke up outside a pub and the people that threatened and chased reporters away are scum. I don’t want any of this at all. I fear there is a culture of impunity around crime full stop. I do think we need to talk about that.

There are some lovely supportive threads at the moment talking about how horrified posters are by the racist thugs . Also, Mumsnet is not a single thinking homogeneous unit - I've been on Mumsnet for years and would say on the whole it's reallly not racist.

We are called racist on here for using our own eyes.

I spoke of a true incident that I saw and my comment was deleted because it didn't fit the narrative of the protests.

Well the term “racist” is a bit like “transphobe” . It won’t be long before the term racist has little meaning and those facing true racism have no meaningful word to describe what is happening to them.

interesting that MN has hidden the debate around the Muslim rioters in Birmingham.

There are very real issues around race people are facing which need to be discussed.

Fantastic post.

@orangalang
you can't ask anything now because it will offend people somehow x

This is the kind of comment you would not have seen on MN until very recently.

OP, why the kiss?

Absolutely! Some of them are really shocking. Thanks for pointing this out.

I think every white person is racist. And I’m white.
Most of us are not deliberately racist but we have no experience of being black or Asian and will occasionally have an opinion that is based on white privilege without even knowing so. However we want to do better and will listen.

And then there are horrible racists who know exactly what they’re doing.
Unfortunately they’re getting more emboldened.

@Dorisbonson is right though. When a country is already broken in terms of housing, health and education then the communities will feel unheard and this is when racists can stir up trouble.
They will find a scapegoat and nasty thugs will join in and the riots begin.
Labour have got a lot of work to sort this.

You seem to be saying that a lot of people who are beacons of EDI are insincere. I have never noticed that myself.

Speak for yourself, not a whole race.

Yes there is lots but I guess in society I bet this is also true
it’s sad and awful but not sure what the answer is! I think they know and that they have been getting pulled up on it here, it doesn’t go unnoticed
I hate what has happened

Exactly! It only tells why people are wondering what are they doing wrong to be called racist. There seems to be a lot of literature out there now validating or encouraging this type of thinking.

I read this as it was very telling that those safe spaces were needed.

Well I'm brown and I get fed up of people on MN saying that everyone and his dog are racist.

It minimises real racism and fuels the sort of riots we are seeing at the moment.

I'm definitely racist for the reasons @Lacdulancelot says. I don't want to be, but if I search my heart I treat and think about other ethnicities differently to how I treat and think about white people. It's important we are honest with ourselves because only then can we overcome those inner biases.

I do a lot of work checking myself and spend a lot of time trying to describe accurately the problems I see in society without kneejerk assumptions. It is a life's work and incumbent on white people to do that work.

It’s an interesting point. I see some of the arguments that appear about Transpeople effectively flipped on their head and people argue the opposite when it comes to racism.

I think it’s important to have very open debate. When issues are shut down it means tensions bubble up. And eventually explode.

People have concerns born out of their experiences telling people to shut up because someone else, without those experiences, thinks it’s transphobic, racist, misogynistic etc is dangerous, people’s experiences and perspectives are their reality.

If you go on the Gaza threads, many who consider themselves anti racists seem very comfortable with antisemitism.

just like with the trans position, this situation around immigration is very complex, it cannot be encapsulated in single words or soundbites. There are times when two positions cannot be reconciled and someone will always be pissed off at the outcome. Everyone always thinks they’re right. We need to listen and be honest.

i keep saying we need to learn from history. Not look at it through revisionist eyes. But actually look at what happens in similar situations before, and this time do something different.

Sadly that isn’t a surprise, a lot of racists think non-whites aren’t actually human, but a lesser animal species.

Rather ironically, there are many middle class MN sat in their houses in the leafy Surrey villages, calling out “racist” as a symptom of their white saviour attitude.

I live in a village about an hour from London, I came here to live from London and have been so shocked at how openly racist people are here. It’s appalling. We’re friends with very few people here because we prefer not to socialise with people who talk about others so disparagingly. Even when I tell them my sister is married a person of colour and they are talking about him and my two nieces, they don’t even look embarrassed. They are Brexit voting, Boris Johnson loving racists and it stinks.

@Immemorialelms I think we all have internal prejudices which aren't our fault exactly but they are our responsibility to work on. I have classist prejudices, which I was definitely brought up with and which have been reinforced by my environment. I've worked on a lot of them and undone some but I still catch them in myself. I can safely say I'm less classist than my parents and grandparents, but I still have work to do.

I actually find it more shocking and upsetting when a person I've thought highly of reveals a subtly racist way of thinking than when I've been confronted with the more abject and ridiculous forms. I've been called a sandn**er to my face and to be honest I laughed, because what does that even mean? Its just stupid and ridiculous. But when a White person I hold in high esteem says something that reveals that....they, too, have those subtle thoughts about "people like me" (though they no doubt wouldn't think of "me" as one of "those people") that's a real slap in the face.

We have lost the art of nuance in this country, likely because of the polarised thinking that social media encourages. There are people who are racist, that's true, but there are also people who look for offence everywhere they go and they will find it because they have an agenda to find it. There are people who want to be seen as progressives and treat minority groups with kid gloves whilst advocating tough love for others which is where the idea that we have a two tier system comes from, and there are people who call this out and are shouted down, often being accused of racism. What there isn't is very little actual listening and understanding going on to points of view that differ.

Real racism is disgusting and as another poster has said, we are in danger of the term racism losing all its meaning when it's bandied about and applied to almost anything and everything that others have a different opinion on.

There was a thread the other day which has now been taken down on Britain's colonial history. It descended into a complete shit show but the posters being jumped on, in the main, were those who did actually have a very good knowledge of history and were trying to put it in some context. That wasn't what the OP wanted though. He/she wanted a bit of hair shirt mea culpa, aren't British white people all absolutely terrible. I saw little racism in that thread but I expect it was reported as such.

Great post! I find difficult to understand this but is where we are.

OK there are racists and?