Riots - where is the army?

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WTF is going on!

Police officers are not empowered defend us! They fear they will end up in court like the police officer at Manchester Airport.

The UK is such a soft touch, it’s actually embarrassing! These rioters have no respect for those poor police officers lives so why do we pander to them with plastic shields rather than water cannons!

Realistically prisons are bursting at the seams and these guys will get off free. Meanwhile taxpayers and cash strapped councils will be lumbered with the repair bill.

They can be empowered and they are trained for this sort of thing. However, it can make it worse.

The best way is swift justice and appropriate punishment.

What makes you think people weren't angry or horrified at riots such as those in Leeds? I do agree those that carry out similar levels of public disorder should receive the same punishments, some of the incidents over the weekend were truly abhorrent and beyond this though, and they should be swiftly punished. This includes those from the 'MDL' who were wandering around with weapons- that's also unacceptable and I hope the police take that seriously.

There certainly are more political elements to this and it's very delicate to tread without inflaming, be interesting to see what the government do next beyond just getting people fast tracked through court- this includes managing riots of a similar nature from any 'side' going forward.

Cracking down on knife crime is important but not sure why that's relevant here? Also disgusting to suggest those who are against these racist right wing thugs have forgotten about 3 girls being murdered, how vile. In what way is them destroying their communities, threatening minorities on the streets, attacking and injuring police and threatening to kill people based on their skin colour anything to do with it? It's not solving anything is it? If people are angry they're angry at the wrong thing.

Cracking down on knife crime is important but not sure why that's relevant here?

Are you really asking this?

Yup.
Nobody cared when up to 300,000 people were marching in support of Palestinians and other Hamas supporters every weekend, and Jews were terrified to go out in cities or on public transport.

The thugs in the north are disgusting pieces of shit, they have been incited and are from poor areas. They should protest peacefully or petition their MP if they feel strongly about illegal immigration.

However they have also just seen month after month of the pro-Hamas crowd acting with impunity and loads of 'Death to America', 'Death to Democracy' type stuff from the similar protests in America.

They have been incited not only by Tommy Robinson and his ilk, but also by seeing the governments tolerance of the above, and lack of any constructive action on reducing ILLEGAL immigration.

But mainly, anybody that gets involved in these types of threatening protests are just thugs looking for any excuse to kick off.

Do you sincerely believe that these people burning down libraries, stopping cars going past to check the person is white are doing this because they believe it'll enact change to knife laws? Heck, even their aims aren't anything to do with it, but to do with immigration. If you can explain how it's relevant and what the people rioting believe will come of it then keen to hear it.

Also when the parents of the girls have asked people not to do this in their name, do you think care for what happened factors into this thuggery?

I do agree that there are issues with how previous marches have been policed and handled, and hope this is addressed going forward. Doesn't mean these are acceptable, or any other excuse for many amongst the genuine to cause havoc.

No, I don't believe that are doing it because they want a tougher stance on knife crime. I want a tougher stance on knife crime.

But it was knife crime that lead to the death to those little girls and to the death of many more. Yes, it's highjacked by the rioters, but it's part of the problem.

Incorrect.

The British Army IS trained and equipped for riot control in urban areas which they developed during Operation Banner.

Virtually all the equipment, training and methods you see the police use during riots was a direct result of Army experience & innovation.

British Army simulates actual riots in training on camp too. Indeed, the army has been deployed to riot control during operations in various places around the world over the last decade, for example.

To suggest they're not trained or equipped for it is rubbish.

But they ARE a last resort and only if the civil powers cannot deal with the problem without assistance.

For now, the peelers can handle it and I'm sure they'll gradually stop them.

It is a few dozen or a couple of hundred scrappy collection of thugs at most. now we don't need to call in a professional army to deal with them.

Very dangerous suggestion, calling in trained armed men to deal with a few louts mostly just calling names and chucking stuff.

I have louts calling names and chucking stuff in my classroom. Should I call in men with guns to deal with them?

I do as well, knife crime is awful.

This isn't anything to do with it though, one of the girls' family are immigrants, how do you think they feel with these racists in their community? Some of these violent men wore t shirts with their photos on whilst spewing racist bile which is just abbhorent. Reality is this was just the spark that lit the keg, egged on by social media.

I do think there are issues the government have been ignoring at best, inflaming at worse that need to be addressed, but this isn't doing anyone any favours. I hope if anything positive can come out of this it's the gov realising how volatile the situation is and how things can't keep being swept under the rug hoping they go away.

Because the image of British soldiers on the streets firing at their own citizens isn't a good look.

If Starmer wants a press image that will cement his legacy after just a few weeks in office then that's certainly the way to go.

Meanwhile, why are so many people protesting because they feel they haven't got a voice? Starmer addresses the nation in the manner of a detached headmaster and says, 'You're very naughty and you'll regret it.' And he uses the word 'communities' so many times, it sounds like a desperate incantation. So the question goes unexamined.

It needs to rain. The poor ickle right wing thugs will all go home. Or get the FA to start the Premiership early.

Your post seem to keep bringing things to a single issue, and while it must be awful for the families to have their loved ones' highjacked by the rioting, it was a stabbing.

Knife culture needs to be dealt with and that doesn't mean the rioters are justified in what they are doing.

I think that they should up the charges for assaulting a police officer. Maximum of 2 years imprisonment currently; make that 20 years and then see if yobs people are less inclined to fight the police.

Do you seriously not see the difference between a legal protest and thugs throwing bricks and burning down buildings?

But they're not rioting because of knife crime? I don't really care what you think---- but I despise the narrative of people have quickly forgotten about x event because they're also against y. You can be against violent, racist blokes and not have forgotten about that awful event.

A serving British soldier was stabbed 70 times outside his barracks in front of his wife. He’s incredibly lucky to be alive (if he survives). It may or may not be terrorism, but given the circumstances he was clearly targeted for his job. Starmer’s response?

Sir Keir Starmer, appearing at his first Prime Minister's Questions, opened by saying: "I know the whole house will be shocked by the news that a soldier has been attacked in Kent. "Our thoughts are with him, his family and our Armed Forces who serve to keep us safe and we wish him a swift recovery."

The rioting is deplorable, inexcusable on every level and utterly brainless but as far as I know nobody (yet, please God no) have been stabbed or are fighting for their life.

Starmer has come out guns blazing over the rioting but his pathetic and borderline embarrassed statement about the soldier is a disgrace.

What message would that be?

A simple one, riot and you'll be dealt with.

Three things

1. what army? It's cut to the bone and hardly any left and over stretched
2. as a wise lecturer once said to me 'if you have deployed the army on your own streets, youve completely lost control of the situation' meaning you have descended into a state which is only likely to escalate because you have people trained to kill not to navigate complex social issues.
3. Putting the army out will not resolve the issue. It will only lead to this sense of being at war with the state/government and a sense of persecution etc etc. Long term that will have ramifications.

I was pretty appalled by that, I couldn’t understand why they weren’t just nabbing people and sticking them in a police van. I do agree they should have been dealt with much more robustly.

I think here it’s because you have travelling mobs of people and it’s gone on for a few days and there is a lot of damage to property, people are being dragged from cars or beaten up on the streets, It’s not localised either.

I wonder why the riots are not considered terrorism? If these are acts of terror, wouldn't they attract stricter sentencing, and perhaps make the rioters think twice about joining in?

I think Keir and others should change the narrative a little - after all, surely this is what they are: home-grown terrorists.

Putting the army on the streets of Belfast worked out for the best now didn't it?

You can despise them all you want, but that’s not going to solve the problem with them.

I'm not talking about the army, I'm talking about what we call it.

From https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/terrorism:

The Terrorism Act 2000 defines terrorism, both in and outside of the UK, as the use or threat of one or more of the actions listed below, and where they are designed to influence the government, or an international governmental organisation or to intimidate the public. The use or threat must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause.

The specific actions included are:

• serious violence against a person;
• serious damage to property;
• endangering a person's life (other than that of the person committing the action);
• creating a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public; and
• action designed to seriously interfere with or seriously to disrupt an electronic system.