AIBU that I have screwed up my kid already?

[dontlookinthemirror]

AIBU that I am the worst parent and screwed up my kid already?

I have a son who will be 3 next month and his behaviour is uncontrollable. At school and out with friends he is lovely, does what we ask/tell him to, plays nicely and gently with friends, happily chats to adults etc. At home he is like a completely different kid (also when he is out with just me and husband, no friends there). I am a teacher so I am aware of the 'oh well they feel comfortable with you so that's why they act up' but it's like he actually hates us.

Example: This afternoon husband took son and baby to the supermarket. Son had a tantrum because he wanted to play in the arcade and husband said no, cue average sized tantrum, rolling around screaming etc. Managed to wrangle him into the car and he fell asleep on the way home. Husband went the long way home to give him a 40 minute sleep so he didn't wake up grumpy. He wasn't grumpy, he was raging. I managed to settle him down and asked him to sit on the potty before he ate his dinner. He screamed ferouciously and was kicking and hitting and just being super angry. We tried calming him down and holding him, giving him some water etc. But ultimately he needed to sit on the potty because he needed to pee and he would have had an accident! So we told him he had to have a time out for kicking, hitting and screaming and not following the instruction to sit on the potty. Husband took him into the bedroom for a time out (whilst I sorted out the baby who was now also hysterically screaming because he was scared!). Son eventually calmed down enough to come back out. Told him again he needed to sit on the potty, cue back to square 1 all over again! This went on for about an hour. We did not shout but were very clear with him.

This is just one example but it's like this for everything, putting shoes on, brushing teeth, brother is playing with a toy he wasn't interested in 10 seconds ago, I won't let him have ice cream for breakfast, etc. It's just getting horrible I don't want to wake up in the mornings and deal with the same arguments, not being able to play with my baby without being attacked, not even being able to go to the toilet without a tantrum because he wants to talk in my face whilst i do my busniess. He's my son and of course I love him but, I'm finding him so hard to enjoy at the moment. He is just so difficult. We are keeping really consistent with him, both doing the same thing, not shouting but being firm, watching what he eats, schedule cards etc. Everything we can think of (and that we've seen in our careers that might work) and literally nothing works. Have we totally screwed this up and thats it now? It will be like this forever?

Yeah there’s a reason people call them threenagers! 3 year olds are very hard work. I promise it won’t last forever. How old is the baby? Probably a bit of a reaction to new sibling as well!

Have you tried when he has calmed talking to him one to one, it is important to make eye contact, do not speak till you have the eye contact.
I have done this with my children and grandchildren, even at 3 they understand their behaviour is unacceptable.
Just keep being consistent, you will get through it .

Sometimes you need to pick your battles. Spending one hour to get an already angry child to sit on the potty? No way! Why are you doing that? Seems like it’s your way or the highway. Maybe he is not ready for potty training yet.
from what you say I also think it’s a reaction to the baby and feelings of jealousy.

I have a DS who is 3 and never go to the toilet alone btw 😅 it’s just life with a toddler. He will grow out of it.

He screamed ferouciously and was kicking and hitting and just being super angry. We tried calming him down and holding him, giving him some water etc

I wouldn't be trying to calm him down, I wouldn't hold him unless absolutely necessary, and I definitely would not try to make him drink water. All this attention you're giving to the tantrum is only fueling it. Tell him once that you'll be happy to talk about it when he feels better, and then sit near by and wait. You're not ignoring him but you're not engaging, either. He has to learn how to regulate his emotions himself, and he can't do that if you're interfering with the process.

As for taking him to the grocery store, is it really worth it right now? It's not fun for him and it's not fun for you. Perhaps let him stay home until this stage has a chance to work itself out.

@Ilovechees3 yes, I forgot to mention this. This is something we do at school, I teach older primary so I always let my kids cool off before I have a chat with them and usually does the trick. My son on the other hand likes to tell me to shush and that I'm not speaking nicely to him!

@Jackiebrambles 6 months. This started when I got pregnant.

My DS sounds very similar to this and I would also have thought it was my parenting, if I hadn't already had an angel of a child 4 years earlier! I didn't make my eldest DD perfectly well behaved, she just has a very aminable, chilled out personality (like her dad). My DS is sensitive, emotional and hates being a kid who can't make his own choices (exactly like I was/am). Age 3/4 was peak for emotional meltdowns and outbursts and he is much calmer now, aged nearly 9. However, their personalities have been exactly the same since they were babies and they are like chalk and cheese, DD is still chilled even at age 13 and DS still very much likes to have his own way!

You haven't screwed up your kid and it will get easier when he can control his emotions better!

@HaveYouSeenRain I didn't want him to be uncomfortable or pee himself which would also make him uncomfortable. What would you suggest in that situation?

It is not my way or the highway. We just don't want him being violent.

Let him wet himself. What’s the worse that would happen?

Try not to engage, you know this from school. The more attention you give, the longer it will go on. You have to let him calm himself down then change the subject. Go back to talk about things when he is calm.

@Aquamarine1029 OK ill try the not engaging thing (also I perhaps made it sound like I was forcing him to drink water, I wasn't, I just offered it to help him calm down). The not taking him out thing, I'm not sure I agree with this. When he is bored his behaviour is a lot worse and reading/drawing/puzzles only last a few minutes at the moment.

But thank you, I will try this tomorrow!

You might find that the timeouts are contributing to the issue. There's a school of thought that they do very little to help emotional regulation. I found the Gentle Discipline Book very helpful.

I would suggest he uses it when he says he needs to. Use a reward chart if needs be to encourage it.

But you have to a know a child who can have the rage for an hour and not wet themselves actually clearly doesn't need the toilet.

I would also try using the choice way or discussion way to manage his emotions.

So "do you want to put your shoes in first or your coat?". "Oh you like the arcade, yes they are fun. Perhaps we could go one day. Which game would you choose to play".

Some kids just can't manage emotions as easily as others.

Try using zones of regulation.

I think this is probably a combination of his age and the new baby. It is a much bigger transition than I ever thought when the second arrives.

Also, I'm not sure you handled this episode as well as you could have done. You asked him to go to the potty and he said no, though he needed it. Ok, but nothing fun happens until he goes. No snack, no TV, you don't join in games. If he wants to kick and scream somewhere safe, go right ahead. If he wets himself, the consequence is that he helps to clean it up. I think the pinning down and time out probably escalated.

How much 1:1 time does he get with you or DH without the baby? Toddlers will get attention anyway they can and this is currently getting him a lot of attention! It's typical for him to try this.

Do you constantly tell him not to do something/be loud/attempt to talk to you because the baby needs you?

Difficult age. But echoing PP shopping is boring and he was close to nap time. Imo a recipe for disaster.

Get the food shop delivered 100%

As he feel asleep after the tantrum I’m wondering if he was tired. Many tantrums at that age are caused by a physical discomfort, being tired, hungry, in pain or discomfort such as needing the toilet.

I agree with @HaveYouSeenRain that you’re fuelling the situation. If he really needed a wee I would try bribing eg after you’ve had a wee we had have an ice lolly if and if that didn’t work as it summer sit in the garden with a potty near by.

The worse thing you can do with a tantrum is issue instructions and give lots of information. They’re already overwhelmed and can’t control their emotions the last thing they need is some one trying to calm them down. Time outs for a child tantruming isn’t going to work.

The way you're parenting is nice and would work perfectly well with many children so no criticism here, but isn't working with yours. My two cents is you need to get better at ignoring/grey rock-ing. Has a meltdown when he doesn't get ice cream for breakfast? That's fine, your breakfast is here on the table, help yourself when you feel like it. Don't engage any further with it. Tantrum when he can't have the toy he wants? No problem, your other toys are here when you're ready. Won't wear his shoes? That's okay, I'm taking them with us in case you change your mind. And so on.

@NeedSomeAnswersPlease the baby is pretty chill, so I would say he does get one to one time with both/each of us. And tbh it's often the baby comes second because son is kicking off which is sad. He likes looking for bugs though so quite often 1 of us will take him in the garden to bug hunt whilst the baby sleeps (tantrum when it's time to come in for lunch etc)

@NotMeekNotObedient I'm not trying to be critical or rude by this so please don't take it this way. But a lot of people are saying well don't take him out then. Honestly if I did this we would never leave the house. I don't see improvements so do we just stay home forever?

@itsgettingweird usually it goes like this,
"Kid, do you want to put your socks on yourself or shall I help you?"
"Nope."
"Well we need to go school now so have to put socks on."
"I'm not going school."
"You have to go to school. Do you want to put the socks on or shall I do it?"
"Nope."
"OK I'm going to put them on"

Sorry, I feel like every suggestion I'm getting I've already tried and I'm that one mumsnetters who is like 'no that doesn't work'to everything! Is this conversation wrong?

@Lincoln24 ahh something you've said there has made me think! We aren't in the UK and the way are job works is if we aren't in on time our pay gets docked. So we have to leave the house at 7.45 or we will be late. I get him up at 6.30 so he has time to get ready but it often results in tantrums because he won't get ready etc. And we end up being late. Perhaps he is feeling rushed? Some kids freak out when they feel rushed. I would say an hour and 15 is plenty time for breakfast, shower, get dressed though? Also doesn't explain the summer holidays stuff haha

@Bemusedandconfusedagain is there another option to time outs? I'm just doing what I know from school (and what they do with the kids in his class) so if there is another option I'm happy to try

So in that situation I would leave a normal amount of time to get ready and then when time is up, it is up. So if he's half dressed and hasn't had breakfast, that's how he goes to school/nursery. If he's well behaved there they'll likely have him dressed in 5 minutes anyway.

Ypu are absolutely NOT the worst.and your kid is not screwed up.

My dd is really headstrong - childcare professionals have verified. So sympathy.
I look at my other friends bland compliant toddlers and think what did i do apart from give her my sassy genes ?

In the morning momentum and no questions is my friend.

Up, potty, cuddle and laugh maybe sing a dongas i get clothes on.
There is zero chat about socks.as I'd have the same conversation.

I keep it.lighthearted and moving so no battle of wills
"I dont want to CM/school" gets "i know! I dont want to go to work either!!!! <puts them on bench to put on shoes>
"Where would you like to go?"
"The beach with peppa pig"
"Me too!!! What would we eat?" <grabs stuff and keys>
"Icecream!"
"Yummm i love icecream... maybe we can have some after dinner tonight" <slams door shut>

The potty thing you have totally wrong. Offer it "i can see you need to go potty. Shall we go?" then drop it completely. My DD had 2 accidents and now knows not to mess about... your current method invites battle of wills. Also he held it for at least an hour... so he didnt need it that desperately...

My thoughts (only that, nothing more): If you’re at home (safe space and there’s no way he can get into any danger), can you just disengage, leave the room, let him just have his meltdown (while you’re close by in a room next door- the kitchen, for example)?
I used to stop speaking- not ignore. Never ignore. Just step away quietly, giving off totally fake Yoga Zen Peace vibes (while dying of fatigue inside) and let the tornado twist itself into exhaustion on the living room floor. It just helps when you’re no longer visible and therefore the source/target/distraction. It’s also healthier for you because you can’t reason with a 3 year old in mid tantrum. It’s impossible. Step away from the crime scene. It’ll just be him and his three year old rage in the living room.

That said, if there’s a risk he might hurt himself, then don’t take my advice at all. You know him better than anyone. And your home may not have the ideal layout to do this.

Deliver EVERYTHING. Go out less with him (you’ll have years of spending quality time in the supermarket together! 😆). There’s a time and a place for shopping with kids. Now is not that time. Grocery delivery is a godsend. Malls are the devil’s work. It’s short term. I know you don’t like hearing this. I know. But it’s really going to be a short spell. He will outgrow this soon.

I worked in a school. I wouldn’t apply that sort of discipline at home. You can set really good, firm boundaries without using too many words or a raised voice. At home, you can use cause and effect to teach him how to regulate emotions and actions: “If you do A, then B happens and that might hurt baby sibling.”
”When you’re angry, try and use words to explain your feelings to me. When I have your words, I can understand you and help you feel better.”

Above all, look after you! Kids test us beyond the limits and there or those moments when you really drown in the relentlessness of living under a tyrant who can’t even colour inside the lines yet!

Make a pact with your DH to understand when you need 15 minutes to breathe, meditate, have a cup of tea… just a moment to decompress… stare at the walls.
My youngest was a tantrum titan and I was a single mum. I have this memory of sitting on the floor with my own mother, then falling onto her, sobbing my heart out because I just couldn’t cope with the tantrums at times. I broke… many times.

DS1 hit age 5 and became the most chilled out, zen child. And he hasn’t changed. He oozes calm. He’s 22 now. They do overcome this stage.

My DD was like this, it’s exhausting😂
stuff that worked for us:

giving no demands when communicating eg “your shoes are by the door, we’ll be leaving in a minute, I can help you if you need”

“the potty is there when you need it” (walk away, no discussion) “oh dear you’ve had an accident, your clean clothes are there”

Time out just lead to giving her loads of attention and a battle of wills as she would not stay! A firm “we do not hit” and walking away/ give yourself time out in the locked bathroom/engage in a task and no attention worked better, if she tried to negatively engage I would just say no thanks I’m feeling sad because you hit me.

Tantrums we would just scoop up and remove, no engagement no reasoning no trying to calm them down, it would just feed it. When she was calmer, then give her a hug and talk through. “I know, it’s really disappointing when you cant buy all the toys in the shop or actually drive the car. It’s ok to feel cross but maybe next time we could practise taking a deep breath etc”

they grow out of it eventually!

Over the potty thing, you are making life hard for yourself. If it went on for over an hour he clearly didn't need to go.

This conversation:

"Kid, do you want to put your socks on yourself or shall I help you?"
"Nope."
"Well we need to go school now so have to put socks on."
"I'm not going school."
"You have to go to school. Do you want to put the socks on or shall I do it?"
"Nope."
"OK I'm going to put them on"

For me would just simply be:

"Kid, time to put your socks on please"
"Nope."
I would literally just pick him up and put the socks on at that point. Absolutely no way would I spend the time trying to negotiate with a child who I know full we isn't going to listen to me anyway.

Giving him questions is allowing him to give a yes or no answer, when he hasn't actually got a choice so just kindly tell him the expectation and if he says no act on it. He will soon realise you're not taking his shit.