AIBU that I have screwed up my kid already?

[dontlookinthemirror]

AIBU that I am the worst parent and screwed up my kid already?

I have a son who will be 3 next month and his behaviour is uncontrollable. At school and out with friends he is lovely, does what we ask/tell him to, plays nicely and gently with friends, happily chats to adults etc. At home he is like a completely different kid (also when he is out with just me and husband, no friends there). I am a teacher so I am aware of the 'oh well they feel comfortable with you so that's why they act up' but it's like he actually hates us.

Example: This afternoon husband took son and baby to the supermarket. Son had a tantrum because he wanted to play in the arcade and husband said no, cue average sized tantrum, rolling around screaming etc. Managed to wrangle him into the car and he fell asleep on the way home. Husband went the long way home to give him a 40 minute sleep so he didn't wake up grumpy. He wasn't grumpy, he was raging. I managed to settle him down and asked him to sit on the potty before he ate his dinner. He screamed ferouciously and was kicking and hitting and just being super angry. We tried calming him down and holding him, giving him some water etc. But ultimately he needed to sit on the potty because he needed to pee and he would have had an accident! So we told him he had to have a time out for kicking, hitting and screaming and not following the instruction to sit on the potty. Husband took him into the bedroom for a time out (whilst I sorted out the baby who was now also hysterically screaming because he was scared!). Son eventually calmed down enough to come back out. Told him again he needed to sit on the potty, cue back to square 1 all over again! This went on for about an hour. We did not shout but were very clear with him.

This is just one example but it's like this for everything, putting shoes on, brushing teeth, brother is playing with a toy he wasn't interested in 10 seconds ago, I won't let him have ice cream for breakfast, etc. It's just getting horrible I don't want to wake up in the mornings and deal with the same arguments, not being able to play with my baby without being attacked, not even being able to go to the toilet without a tantrum because he wants to talk in my face whilst i do my busniess. He's my son and of course I love him but, I'm finding him so hard to enjoy at the moment. He is just so difficult. We are keeping really consistent with him, both doing the same thing, not shouting but being firm, watching what he eats, schedule cards etc. Everything we can think of (and that we've seen in our careers that might work) and literally nothing works. Have we totally screwed this up and thats it now? It will be like this forever?

And actually if you are a teacher you are probably used to rules eg go to the toilet before meals.etc.

Lots of successful parenting is instincts, variation to circumstances and not following the rules all the time

I have always said age 3 was my DDs worst age, it was the age she pushed every single boundary, from 4 on she has been an angel honestly but age 3 she pushed as much as she could and we held firm in our boundaries (whilst wondering if we were doing the right thing) but ultimately she outgrew it.

But I look back now and will always say age 3 was her very worst age for turning into a terror.

He didn’t need the potty clearly. If my DS says he doesn’t want the potty, I leave it. Yes he still sometimes wets himself, it’s part of potty training.
forcing him to go when you think is right, is not the right approach to potty training. Spending an hour battling back and forth, 2 adults vs 1 toddler seems an unnecessary power struggle to me and frustrating for everyone. As I said, pick your battles. This is not one of them. Why are so regimented? He is only 3.
he can probably sense how frustrated you are and plays up to get more attention.

I had a relatively compliant toddler, but even so he HATED it when I told him he had to do a wee - it was the one thing guaranteed to make him furious! Better to let him wet himself.

He didn't need the toilet. Never, ever, ever, ever make toileting a battle

You said you play a game with him ONCE baby has gone to bed. Need to find away to play a game with him and solely him while baby is there. It's like oh look babies gone now mummy will play with me now instead of oh look baby is here but mummy is playing with me now

Try reverse psychology. Seems to work well with 3yr olds! Don't worry it's normal. Its all kind of trial and error as you all see what works

I could have written this about my own three year old boy; it’s been hell since just after he turned three, he was actually a very sweet two year old. We’ve also got a new baby and that seemed to have a big impact. In the last few weeks he’s been slightly better, dare I say. My husband thinks he’s neurodivergent, but I don’t think he is; we’ve had no issues at all at nursery or with any other caregivers. Sending hugs and hope it gets better soon for you (and us!)

Look up Dr Becky on YouTube - she’s so good with stuff like this!
I’ve had the same with the before school stuff. One thing that works well for some kids is to address things less directly. So if my DS is frustrated about something and getting increasingly het up, I’ll sometimes talk to him about a time I was frustrated as a child and what happened/ what my mum said, etc. (you can use a bit of artistic license here).
And if my DD is refusing to wear various shoes, I tell her we’ll talk about it when we get to preschool, sort of postponing the problem - often by the time we get there she has been distracted by something else!

This. It might really help to name this too. “Ah I bet it can be really hard having a little sibling sometimes, can’t it?” Really try to get into his head in relation to how he might be feeling and then put it into words for him.

and also - parenting is so hard and we’re all just muddling along, doing the best we can! I really like how open you are to hearing different ideas

Try something different, you're doing the same things and getting nowhere,perhaps these are considered the 'right' things and you're doing your best but different children need different things at different times. Try looking a little at transactional analysis, parent adult and child ego states, is his behaviour dragging you into some ego state you don't want to be in? I did this often with my kids and met them where they were at, they wanted control, I gave them it, you want to be in parent mode and have control and choice, well let's try it eg you don't want to go to school, ok you phone in, you work out what you're doing to do all day alone, you find a way to feed yourself today, you want to be in control well you go for it, they soon acuiesed and realised they needed mum and dad to run the show, but all children are different and admittedly if my husband did this it didn't always work. My point is don't be afraid to try something different, if he won't go on potty, disengage, go off and all have your lunch and ignore it, see what he does, give him the chance to see what making his own decisions and having control feels like and whether he actually really wants that, maybe this is what he needs, to see that all the control he craves is actually not that great, we did this for stuff like refusing to bath or eat, we'd just go cool, this is what we think you should do but if you want to choose something else then we're away to have a cuppa and watch telly and you can do what you want. It's amazing how quickly both of our children would suddenly be asking for us to take charge again and doing what we suggested, not easy when you've a life to run, but neither is battling over a potty for an hour with everyone stressed to the max.

Ha, sounds like mine at 3 (and sometimes still now at 5 if he's tired). A lot of traditional parenting tools don't work on him, giving choices in particular if he's not in the mood to think or make decisions or listen. He is easily overwhelmed and worries a lot.

Instead, we don't ask his opinion or give options - we make the choice for him. There's no 'apple or grapes?' or 'Park or beach?'. We give him his food, or tell him where we're going. He seems to thrive on having fewer choices, which I can understand - it's stressful having too many things to decide about!

Just one aspect to consider. It sounds like you're having a power struggle over little things like using the potty, which puts you at odds on pretty much everything else. We had these same issues. Once we lowered our standards, stopped giving so many options, he was much calmer and happier. We don't fight about wearing coats and hats when it's cold - we take them with us for when he asks for them. Stopping this cycle means we don't have the ridiculous battles over more important things like teeth brushing, sun cream, etc., because he knows we don't insist on things that aren't important.

Op I can't remember the book name but I'm sure someone has mentioned it but it's the essence of what some pp aren't saying re choices and options. He isn't ready for them.

Try and read around this definitely and do different strategies.
Re potty, just let him wet himself. It's no big deal and yes he maybe not ready yet.

^^ what blessed just said.

Reading your posts - the thing that has struck me is you only do stuff with him when baby isn't there. When baby has gone to bed, when baby is napping, when baby is with the nanny and you are getting ready for school so not really 100% of your attention. It feels like you are slotting him in when it works for you.

I would use divide and conquer, one of you spend some time with each child, do something fun with baby tagging along. At 6 months they are fine getting attention along the way you can do baby focussed stuff but 2nds generally come along for the ride!!!

3 is a tough age, speak to your younger year colleagues about things they may do, marble jar is good as a starting point.

All parents screw their kids up a bit(!) but it sounds like you really care and are doing a great job.

I think Dr Becky’s instagram or podcasts could really help you, or “how to talk so little kids will listen, and listen so little kids will talk”.

Agree with other pps re not needing the potty. Don’t pick fights about things not worth fighting about - I will never have an argument about wearing a coat for instance. I’ll give information: “it’s a cold day, a coat will keep you warm”, or “wees go in the potty”, but I have a kid like yours and if told explicitly what to do they dig their heals in. If she won’t put a coat on I’ll chuck it under the pram and if/when she’s cold she’ll put it on.

Can you make the stuff you have to do more fun? So socks have a silly voice and just love to cuddle stinky feet. Try and put his shoes on you and go “silly mummy, why won’t my shoes fit??”. All sorts of random items get anthropomorphised in our house (nail clippers are hungry little monsters that love eating nails; for a while tooth brushing was done by a hand puppet). We race to get dressed. We try and press start on our electric toothbrushes at exactly the same time. We make up dances when tidying up.

I can already hear replies from more authoritative parents saying it sounds like a lot of work, but for my child it works whereas more traditionally “strict” parenting wouldn’t. And I enjoy it more than arguing with her. The basic standards though are the same.

Time out would never work for my headstrong preschooler. Instead when she was little I would sit with her and say “I won’t leave you while you feel overwhelmed, but I’m here when you’re ready for a cuddle.” If needed, “I won’t let you hit”. Sometimes I’d write her notes which even before she could read would take the wind out. Now she’s a little older she often writes down how she’s feeling when overwhelmed and posts it under the door to me.

We have really solid boundaries and expectations but I try and keep the mechanisms for holding them light. Your son doesn’t know how to regulate his emotions yet but is feeling them all. For my kid who sounds like yours it’s all about increasing connection and holding meaningful boundaries.

You've had lots of advice here, I hope it's not too overwhelming and you can pick out one or two ideas that will work for you.

I would agree with pps for you to look at Dr Becky or the "how to talk" book. I haven't seen any posts recommending naming the emotion and helping him co-regulate - so if he refuses socks, assuming socks are actually non negotiable, then I would say, "oh socks are such a pain sometimes! Shall we wear them on our heads today" and put his socks on while he laughs at your hilarious joke.

This example might not work, but the good news is that socks are needed every day so you get lots of chances to try again with a new idea 😄

Also… if he’s being a pain in the arse about putting his shoes on for school - is he reluctant to go to school due to separation anxiety? We’ve had real phases where my dd won’t get dressed because she was trying to put off leaving me to go to school.

If so, there are things that might help to feel connected to you while he’s there - eg putting a picture of you in his bag, or drawing a “love button” on each of your arms that he can press if he misses you. We talk about feelings a lot in our house so I would also speak to him about that sense of separation, that you miss him too, but that you always come back.

3 year old plus a baby is very hard work, well mine were. It's gets easier.

Thanks to most of you for the advice. There are some things I can try here, I hope they work.

Of course, it wouldn't be a mumsnet post without some people completely missing the point and writing quite rude responses.

1. He needed the toilet. He was dancing around and pulling on his penis. When we finally did get his pants down there was pee in his pants and he did a massive wee on the toilet. Previous to this he had been in the car and supermarket for a long time. So yes he needed to go. I gently said to him to go to the toilet before dinner. I didn't suggest you cannot eat until you pee?! Then he started kicking and hitting. The main issue here is the kicking and hitting. I am sure you don't want your kid to be violent either.

1. I play with my kid. I play with my kid when baby is there and also when baby is not there. Some of you have implied I just ignore him or resent him. No. I didn't include a detailed plan of my day with him because I really cannot see a problem with it when he gets so much 1 to 1 attention.

1. I had to go back to work when he the baby was 6 weeks old as much as I didn't want to. Our lives are very busy so yes we often have a schedule. I will try the taking him out without shoes on but to be honest, that is very rude in this country.1. It is dangerous for many reasons. 2. It is a school rule. 3. It is a cultural rule - locals don't want foreigners dirty feet everywhere.

1. A lot of you say I dictate and imply I'm obsessed by the rules. I am not. He can ha g around in his pants at home for all I care but when we get to school he has to wear shoes. Just as your kid would have to wear a coat in the British weather. Don't make this out to be an authoritarian relationship because I'm a teacher.

Good luck! Re coat: did you read the previous posts? Like other posters I don’t make my kids wear a coat or hat. I take it and if they are cold they will ask for it and put it on. Usually takes about one minute.
Some things are non negotiable of course like sun cream when it’s sunny outside.

@dontlookinthemirror would it help to try and reframe how you see the kicking and hitting? Rather than thinking of him as violent, he’s overwhelmed and dysregulated in that moment and doesn’t have enough skill or language yet to express that any other way. So can you try staying really, overly calm (easier said than done…) and say something like. “Wow, I hear you, you really don’t need the potty. I won’t let you hit. I won’t let you hit.” Or “I won’t let you hit. But that potty has made you so angry! I think I just saw a bit of anger shoot out your ear! And another! Let’s catch it and throw it in the bin.”

It’s not going to get him to wee right there and then but it might defuse things and stop him turning the potty into a battle for control. If he’s looking for things to control wee and food are the big guns for a 3 year old.

Good luck. Threenagers are hard work!

Have you tried role playing with teddies/small figures some of the confrontations you have had?

ie he is mummy, you are child, and you play “going to school” and you make your figure do what he does. Watch what he makes the mummy do in reaction and chat about it. M

Then switch roles/re-play it/try alternatives.

It’s a really successful way to talk about behaviour suitable for his age.

Don't make this out to be an authoritarian relationship because I'm a teacher.

I don't think anyone is and all the replies have been supportive ?

You haven’t screwed up your kid, it’s just a difficult age and no doubt compounded by the arrival of a sibling. I had a similar age gap and can remember feeling similarly exhausted and hopeless - dealing with tantrums when you’re so tired and burnt out from lack of sleep etc yourself is really hard. It will pass and things will get easier. One of the best bits of advice I read when my kids were tiny is that discipline isn’t about making your kids behave, it’s about teaching them to control their own impulses and is a long and ongoing process, with ups and downs along the way. Keeping a bit of long term perspective helps to avoid beating yourself up when things don’t go as planned - it’s all part of the process. Just keep being consistent, model the behaviour you want, be as kind and patient as you can and keep steering him the right way. Maybe think about what triggers him and try to preempt as much as possible - it sounds like demands set him off so with the potty, I’d just ask if he needed it, remind him it’s there and then leave it up to him. The other thing that helped my 3 year old was giving her lots of attention before she asked for it to ‘top her up’ - so in the morning, lots of cuddles, lots of attention (not always possible if the baby is needing attention but whenever you can). My 3 year old who once screamed and kicked for an hour because I told her the packet of green beans she was holding at the supermarket had to be scanned and paid for, is now a delightful, quiet, thoughtful teenager who loves her younger brother (mostly). Hang in there and be kind to yourself.