To say the Olympics hates women

[ArabellaScott]

A child rapist performing for the Netherlands.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/olympics/article-13674293/Convicted-child-rapist-Steven-van-Velde-Netherlands-booed-volleyball-olympics.html

Males punching women in the face as sport.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/cnd0drjr4jdo

Offensive caricatures of women everywhere.

https://glaad.org/french-drag-artists-made-history-as-first-in-drag-to-carry-the-olympic-torch/

Therefore, please stop censuring others who have a much deeper understanding of both sport and how testosterone impacts female sports in particular.

@Helleofabore the outcomes are not the same, if your body is insensitive to androgens, the outcome is not the same. That is the whole point.

@AccidentallyWesAnderson mumsnet is full of transphobia, in my opinion. I'm not going to go trawling for it. If you disagree, that's absolutely fine. Again, I don't like the tone of your posts, unnecessarily aggressive.

@Helleofabore I'm not censoring anyone. I'm saying that the way people have posted, to me, is unacceptable. Not sure why you are so sure your opinion is so absolutely correct any no one else is entitled to say anything different.

Rustnot.

Please see my posts and actually read them.

I have been very very clear, in fact, over multiple threads, about the current regulations about males with DSD that experience any degree of virilisation. I have not been talking about those who do not in any detail.

Please look up the meaning of censuring.

Okay, given you disagree with people "AMAB" competing in the women's tournaments, would you agree theoretically that if a person is mistakenly "AFAB" yet found to have XY chromosomes, male levels of testosterone, and has experienced virilizarion at puberty (ie male pubertal development), they also should not be able to compete?

I don't have the opinion that my own opinion should not be challenged at all.

I am challenging the fact that what I have posted is not relevant or is being misrepresented.

I fully encourage you to post evidence and discuss it.

So no examples. Quelle surprise.

To be clear, I'm not asking if you think they should be callled men, or if you think they should not be able to "live as female" if that is what they are happy with.

Purely if you think someone with XY chromosomes/male T levels/virilsation should be able to compete against those who are the opposite

@Helleofabore I do take issue with articles relating to transgender athletes being used in arguments relating to athletes with DSD, because I think it means that people will begin to confuse the two issues, which I don't think is helpful in this debate. I think that is where we disagree. As I have said, I don't like the way that some people on this thread have conducted themselves, and I think some of the posts have been unpleasant. Some of what you have posted is quite interesting, and I fully admit, and have at no point claimed otherwise, that I need to further my own knowledge and understanding of the issue to have a well informed opinion. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

@AccidentallyWesAnderson I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to achieve with your comments.

"As I have said, I don't like the way that some people on this thread have conducted themselves, and I think some of the posts have been unpleasant."

This is censuring. You have declared it is 'unpleasant'. It amounts to disapproving.

And it is censoring too. You wish posters to post to fit your personal preferences.

AccidentallyWesAnderson I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to achieve with your comments.

It's pretty evident. You said transphobia is prevalent on MN, and the implication it's on this thread. Many people accuse posters of being transphobic but fail to back up this pretty serious (well it used to be before it lost its meaning) accusation. I asked for examples.

If you state something you should be able to back up what you say, especially if it's 'prevalent'. Not sure what's so difficult to understand about that, or what's aggressive about it.

You accused another poster of being hateful etc for merely posting a picture that shows potential genitals and by way of evidence of a person potentially cheating. You're throwing a lot out there but failing to back a lot of it up.

If by my own personal preferences, you mean that I would prefer people didn't make hateful comments about individuals, or make personal attacks towards others, then yes I agree with you.

What hateful comments?

@AccidentallyWesAnderson I suspect if I found you examples you wouldn't agree that they amounted to transphobia anyway. I imagine it is an issue on which we may fundamentally disagree. And yes, I found the posting of those pictures distasteful and part of the vitriol Khelif is facing, which I don't agree with. Again, you may disagree with me, that is fine.

@TheKeatingFive much of it is further up the thread.

It's not hateful to post an individuals public actions that are shown live on tv, clearly showing they have male genitalia when posters are claiming they have a vulva. HTH.

Specifically what though?

What hateful comments?

I was called a d*ck and a p@nis by cookie, but apparently that's fine because I provoked it by posting a screenshot from live tv.

Well in the absence of any actual examples I guess we'll never know. Considering you said how prevalent it was I'm surprised you're struggling to find at least one.

Some women have such a problem with women not wanting biological males in their spaces and sports. Mind blowing to me.

Agreed. That poor woman and how much bullying she is being subjected to. Yes she has higher testosterone levels but conflating her condition with trans woman competing is very wrong. I am absolutely against trans women competing in women’s sport but I don’t have an issue with a women who is simply using what nature gave her.

And still no answer to why someone's feelings should be prioritised over someone's physical safety if there's any ambiguity.

I ask again @Rustnot as it seems it's been missed. I'll repost my question giving you the benefit of the doubt that you missed it, rather than you just want to argue about name calling and alleged transphobia...

...

@Rustnot - given you disagree with people "AMAB" competing in the women's tournaments, would you agree theoretically that if a person is mistakenly "AFAB" yet found to have XY chromosomes, male levels of testosterone, and has experienced virilizarion at puberty (ie male pubertal development), they also should not be able to compete?

...

I'm not asking about whether they should be called men or their pictures critiqued, purely should they be allowed to compete against women

@AccidentallyWesAnderson if you read my posts you would see that I have said I don't think transgender women should participate on women's sport. That doesn't mean I support transphobic comments.