Genuine question re pensioner fuel payment cut

[Katypp]

Just this: How would the Labour supporters react if three weeks into a new Conservative Government, the chancellor cut the winter fuel payment to any pensioner with an income of more than £11k?
Would you think it was a reasonable thing to do or would it be considered cruel because it was the Tories implementing it, not Labour?
I would imagine Angela Raynor, Yvette Cooper and Wes Streeting would have been very vocal and worried about it.
Would the public finances argument wash if it was a Tory Government? It didn't when Cameron came into power.
What's different?

I can’t believe that it was ever given out universally in the first place. My grandma used to buy premium bonds with hers whilst working people were agonising about how they could afford to put the heating on. Disgraceful.

It was introduced as a universal benefit when the economy was doing well and there were fewer pensioners. Also far more pensioners then had only their state pension. Times have changed.

Kier Starmer would have got off to a better start then if he'd stopped the subsidies.

There are a lot of pensioners (Like ourselves) who dont qualify for Pension Credit.However we are a long way off being wealthy! I think RR is misguided. A recent article said many more people will be claiming PC in future, who have been eligible but too proud to claim. We have worked for years .need some help!

The goverment should not have created the policy for this winter at all without first studying possible outcomes of such a policy. There are going to be extra hospitalisations and deaths this winter due to the policy. It has been rushed without giving a second though at the possible consecuencies. It isn't just those with low income not entitle to pension credit but also older people in their 80s and 90s, that even with savings, find difficult to go into their savings etc due to worries and anxieties or whatever reason as people at that age often can't change , some of them that currently use the fuel allowance to keep warm, will not use any other money instead even if they have it , some people at that age have fix ideas and it is very difficult to change them , they are not going to suddenly change, they will instead suffer the cold ang get ill, specially if they don't have enough family or support, or if they don't listen to the family. The goverment has not studied the effects it will have on those with low income or in some of the very elderly that tend to only spending what they get each month, etc or less and where due to age those habits can't be modified that easily. That policy is going to kill lots of very elderly people because it isn't like there is a working social services running able to supervise the elders wellbeing either. It should be illegal to just rush policies that affect vulnerable people without studying the possible outcomes in those affected. This policy is criminal really, even if it was not the intention, it will be criminal to continue with the policy and I hope until they come out with a safer alternative they put back the winter fuel allowance like it was.

£7 million is peanuts (that isn’t to say it shouldn’t be withdrawn). The WFA withdrawal is saving more than 200 times that amount. The “Christmas bonus” costs £130 million.

WFA is £1.5 billion.

Every little helps as the saying goes.

Very interesting but not what I was asking. My question was if I have a bus pass and don't use it and my neighbour has a bus pass and uses it every day will she be incurring a cost to the council for each journey or will both cards incur the same cost to the council.

"It isn't just those with low income not entitle to pension credit but also older people in their 80s and 90s, that even with savings, find difficult to go into their savings etc due to worries and anxieties or whatever reason as people at that age often can't change , some of them that currently use the fuel allowance to keep warm, will not use any other money instead even if they have it , some people at that age have fix ideas and it is very difficult to change them , they are not going to suddenly change, they will instead suffer the cold ang get ill, specially if they don't have enough family or support, or if they don't listen to the family."

Sorry but if they have the money and CHOOSE NOT TO USE IT for whatever reason, that's on them. I really don't care about their "fixed ideas" if they get ill because they're too stubborn to use their money and would.rather hoard it WTH should the taxpayer be covering the cost???

Yes I can identify with this. I see a lot of older people in my job, many have a lot of savings they just don't want to use it. they don't want to pay for care, for a gardener, cleaner etc. They don't go out anywhere or spend much . They just seem to want to leave a load of money for their kids. They all want to claim what non means tested benefit's they can because' they are 'struggling'. Then when you offer to do a benefit check for them to check for anything means tested they go all quiet as they all have 100k + stashed away.

It'd only be 55p per pensioner per year, so hardly worth even thinking about.

It's all a numbers game. These figures sound big until you divided by the number of pensioners (12.6 million!)

No, both cards don't incur the same cost to the council. The LA reimburses the bus company for each journey taken.

That's why those who have a bus pass / concessionary card have to tap it to record the journey. (Otherwise they would have to just show it to prove they don't have to pay.

Per gov.uk re England:
"Local authorities are responsible for reimbursing bus operators for journeys made by passengers with a bus pass. The Government funds this reimbursement as part of the main Revenue Support Grant for local authorities."

A similar system exists in Wales.

If people have savings but are too 'fixed' in their ways to dip into them, harsh but that's up to them. Why should the tax payer pay?

Not when the numbers are so disparate. £7 million is peanuts in Treasury terms.

I see it a lot too. Ironically their "kids" (or more likely grand kids) need the money now and would be grateful now, rather than having to wait for them to die! I think it comes from the mentality of the people from yesteryear, as per the "Mill on the Floss" book where there was a woman who had a front room with all her nice stuff in that no one was allowed to go into (even she never used it) and she had loads of "posh" tablewear in a cupboard that was never used, and for poorly paraphrase her, she said something like, "people will know what nice stuff I had when I'm dead". Very strange way of thinking.

I've a neighbour who is very well off, rattling around in a six bedroom house on his own, a new BMW every couple of years, etc. Really struggling at the moment as he needs a hip replacement and has been limping around for 2 or 3 years now, still waiting for the op. I suggested he went private in passing conversation when he was whingeing about waiting lists and he went ballistic - got both barrels of "I've paid tax all my life" etc etc. He could easily afford a private op but would rather wait for 2/3/4 years for it to be done on the NHS, in pain all that time, the pain stopping him doing what he wants such as holidays, gardening, etc. I just don't get it at all. Saw him the other day and he was almost foaming at the mouth about the loss of the WFA that he doesn't actually need, but again "I've paid tax all my life" entitlement.

Thank you, so all the worry about people having cards and not using them isn't necessary. We drive, DH gets travel sick if he isn't driving so although he could have had a bus pass about 15 years ago he has never bothered as it would be no use to him. He's had a disabled users train card for years but to be honest he hardly travels anywhere so not sure it is worth it, I buy the senior citizens version and it saves me quite a bit when travelling to see family but not sure how that works as there are so many different rail cards, GS has a 16 to 25 cards (I think those are the ages) and again it saves him quite a bit.

I don't remember quite the outrage when child benefit payments were stripped from everyone earning over £50k. So a couple could earn £49k each, bringing in a very healthy joint income and keep it, whereas a single parent earning just over £50k would lose it. There are always winners and losers and hard choices to be made. I think universal WFPs should stop. But I think the threshold they're proposing is too low. That said, if Labour focus their efforts on bringing down the cost of utilities for everyone then it's a price worth paying. Maybe the reduced cost of gas and electricity will even surpass the one off payment, but benefit everyone rather than just pensioners.

If I had a pound for how many times I hear these elderly people spouting out the " I've paid tax all my life", I would be a very rich woman !! Maybe we do a similar job ? ! I think people who don't have to listen to this kind of entitled behaviour all day just don't get it but it's rife. had a bloke on friday ranting about loss of WFA. Between him and his younger wife they have 2.5 k a month coming in ( earnings, pensions, disability benefits ) living in a small council bungalow, cheap and easy to heat and very low rent. They had over £550 a week to live on after rent paid( and also getting half their council tax paid ) yet still ranting.

Dont spend money on themselves to save for their kids...........get moaned at
Spend money on themselves............get moaned at

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13211785/My-inheritance-drunk-straw-coconut-Caribbean-selfish-resenting-boomer-parents-burning-money-mine.html

That said, if Labour focus their efforts on bringing down the cost of utilities for everyone then it's a price worth paying. Maybe the reduced cost of gas and electricity will even surpass the one off payment, but benefit everyone rather than just pensioners.

Not going to happen this winter, though.

Labour is claiming their energy plan will save households £300 by 2030. That's over 5 years away, even if it is realistic.

Get accused of deprivation of assets to avoid care costs. You can't win.

I thought there was a lot of outrage. Martin Lewis has championed the issue I believe. Of course £50k is a much higher cliff edge.

My DH is a lot older than me and im his carer. We need a bungalow but live in a one bedroom flat. Honestly its attitudes like this that make me want to throw in the towel and absolve myself of the responsibility. That younger wife will likely end up as his carer if shes not already.

And you would be saying that to her yourself if she had posted on the Relationships board for advice about dating him at the start of the relationship. Funny how this is ignored when it comes to talking about ££££ though. Disability benefits arent easy to get either. But you knew that didnt you. Because if we were talking about someone under 60 you would be saying that yourself

Seriously. This is a ridiculous comparison. There is an actual WORLD of difference between spending every penny on Carribbean holidays (meaning you'd have nothing left to pay for care if you need it) and refusing to use your heating so as not to spend money and expecting the tax payer to foot the bill. Both are very selfish attitudes though.