Genuine question re pensioner fuel payment cut

[Katypp]

Just this: How would the Labour supporters react if three weeks into a new Conservative Government, the chancellor cut the winter fuel payment to any pensioner with an income of more than £11k?
Would you think it was a reasonable thing to do or would it be considered cruel because it was the Tories implementing it, not Labour?
I would imagine Angela Raynor, Yvette Cooper and Wes Streeting would have been very vocal and worried about it.
Would the public finances argument wash if it was a Tory Government? It didn't when Cameron came into power.
What's different?

60 year olds get free bus passes in Liverpool.

I did not know that. I am this demographic and still working and I get nothing free except prescriptions.

There is enough to money to look after our pensioners. Well there would be if we didn't give it away to others that have never paid Ni or tax in this country. After all, surely our taxes and NI contributions are to look after our country?

I think it's awful! I looked after my lovely nan in her old age until she died, and she definitely felt the cold so much more than I and had her heating on much much more than I did. She was disabled and just above the threshold so she would not have gotten this money today. She sometimes wet herself as she couldn't get to the toilet in time so washer was on every day. She had electric and coal heating (coal is so expensive. And sticks and firelighters to get is going is also expensive.) We got her a inside electric air drier/heaters etc to make her life easier but it still costs money. They are taking from the most vulnerable!

I'm a pensioner and I'm fine with it for me in my circumstances. I'm not in favour of someone on a full state pension not getting it and someone with the same income on pension credit getting it. You either need it on that income or you don't so I don't agree with the level of the cliff edge or on the other hand no one gets it.

So it’s sensible to take away a benefit that an elderly person living on 12K a year had?

Honestly winter fuel payment for many with disabilities and young children has already been cut .

people living in Spain were been given winter fuel payments .

If Labour cut nothing then the priority need would not be met , I don’t know how else it could have been cut any more fairly .

What some people seem to forget is that elderly people living on low incomes are very vulnerable. They will be concerned at the high cost of fuel, and will turn the thermostat down accordingly. They find it difficult to keep warm by moving round unlike younger people. No one should live in fuel poverty. Its a shitty move.

I'm only 62 and will only get the State Pension when I'm 67, not sure what will happen to my teensy bit of Additional (didn't opt out of SERPS) and my small amount of savings will be eaten up in the next year or 2. It seems I won't qualify for Pension Credit and it now seems that I won't get the Fuel Allowance either.

My current work source has dwindled to a trickle and all attempts to get a job that still allows me to care for my disabled ds has, so far, been fruitless.

As a woman it wasn't always so easy to get well paid jobs in the past and I managed to accrue enough paying-in to NI to qualify because I could see how having children meant that you became reliant on men or thrown to the wolves if you were brave enough to leave them and become a single parent.

And so.....there are millions of women currently alive who know exactly what I'm talking about and could easily fill in their experiences into that story. These are the women that include the ones like me that stood our ground and pushed for more women's equality in the workplace.

I'm not quite sure if it's turned out so well after all for either the younger women or specifically the older women, many of whom will remain poor and worse in old age as their young turn them out to the wolves.

Ah, thank you!
But you didn't do to badly yourself! 👍

.......too badly 🙄

Well at least the junior doctors will be able to earn their pay rise this winter caring for the elderly with pneumonia. You'll still get people on here saying "bloody old people taking up all the hospital beds".

Good luck with that one. Honestly, the naivety of some people is amazing. If it were that easy, do you honestly think the Tories would not have tackled it? Likewise getting Amazon etc to pay more tax.
Why would the Tories not have tapped into this easy money if they could? (and no, it's not all 'their mates')
Labour produced a raft of crown pleasers and envy policies i their manifesto and some just lapped them up.
The next few months are going to be interesting as the scales fall off supporters' eyes.
Any yes, I agree with pps who say Labour's fangirls will give them a free pass for anything - if they honestly think they would have accepted this policy as necessary under a Tory Government, they are deluding themselves

I am also staggered that, according to this thread at least, there are only two types of pensioner. Either you are poor enough to get pension credit or you are swanning off on four cruises as year, swigging Champagne and living it up in your £1m+ home you own outright.
I would imagine most pensioners fall between the two, and most of them towards the bottom end of the scale.

Me too. It has been an eye-opener to me that there is so much resentment over a few hundred pounds to be given to a household where a pensioner is trying to ward off cold-related health problems.
I have contacted my 'labour' MP over this and signed the petition Age Uk are running (over 100,000 signature after 2 days)
Surely a more equitable cliff-edge to remove the allowance can be made

This would have been my first year of receiving it but I still think it’s the right decision, no matter which party made it.

Yes that's certainly possible if someone is on a disability benefit. I've just done a calculation for someone today, full new state pension, small private pension of about £280 a month and daily living PIP and savings of just over 10k and it's come out with a very small amount of pension credit but as we know even a very small amount will give this person the winter fuel payment, warm home discount , all rent and council tax paid paid, free dental care, free opticians. So this person would have almost £900 state pension, £280 private pension plus around £300 PIP so almost £1500 a month to live on after all rent and council tax paid. To be honest I don't think it's bad. I know people will say the PIP is extra money for having a disability. but it is still money to live off. having worked in benefits for seven years now I never fail to be amazed at how much some people are getting and also how little others get. There's a huge numbers of pensioners on disability benefits so the pension credit calculation is raised by £85 if they live alone due to the severe disability premium. Most of them are blown away when they not only get £108 a week Attendance Allowance awarded but then the exta £85 premium too. £185 a WEEK extra money. I have now idea how the country isn't bankrupt !! If you don't work in this area or have a relative getting it, then you won't know about it.

Now I've just run someone getting the current state pension with no savings and now other benefits through entitled to and got the following

@Miley1967 - that's bloody incredible, but I don't doubt it. I hope that if I haven't dug myself out of my current situation before I can transfer to the State Pension quagmire I don't develop a disabling health condition to my 'dotage' - but bloody hell maybe I should!

Wow, that was unpleasant.

How about parents stop with tongues hanging out for every penny for the kids they wanted and chose to breed.

Children don't chose to be 'bred'. In your depiction of parents breeding for cash, you still begrudge that child being given some toast?

@Polarnight - maybe reserve your venom for the patriarchy instead of the women who breed, expecting that everything will support them being able to work and remain being productive, soon to find that most things don't actually support that and many women today still have to take it on the chin and suck it up because they halted their economic productivity to reproduce more humans.

We've been sold a bit of a 'pup' I always say.

@ruby1957

Surely a more equitable cliff-edge to remove the allowance can be made

There are cliff edges all over the tax/benefits system. It's a shame the "clever" politicians and senior civil servants can't work out better ways.

Just be grateful the loss of WFA is only a few hundred pounds.

During covid, people were excluded from thousands/tens of thousands of pounds of support for being just a few pounds over the threshold, or because their "other income" for a whole tax year was as little as a pound more than their self employed income, or because whilst they were paid wages for every month in the year besides February, 2020, they were excluded from furlough for having no wage in February! It was absolute madness.

The loss of WFA for being a few pounds over the threshold is trivial compared with what 3 million freelancers/self employed and other workers lost due to being excluded from support by Rishi!

But people can't help getting old and the health care needed that comes with that. It's a well known fact that elderly people feel the cold. Neither group should suffer.

How can you say it's trivial? It will be life or death for some pensioners this winter plus the NHS doesn't need any more pressure at the moment.

Miley1967 - I thought you couldn't get PIP if you were over 65, or am I reading your post wrong.