To not realise how much money is in selling puppies?

[Purplebiscuitwithsprinkles]

We've been on the look out for a puppy. We've decided to go for a rescue dog. Got chatting to a neighbour and they told us a neighbour around the corner is selling puppies at £1500 each x6. As far as we know all is above board and they are registered etc.

We were tempted to go for it as the dogs are on our list but something was niggling away at me so decided to stick with our original plan and go for a rescue dog. This is booked for a visit to a rescue centre tomorrow.

I suppose my AIBU is should people not be allowed to breed puppies and those wanting to get one should just get rescue/abandoned dogs instead? There's so many dogs in shelters but they seem to be so many being bred still.

I don't know the full ins and outs but £9,000 tax free is a lot of money from what I understand the neighbours have bred puppies before and made £10,000 so £19,000 in the space of two years with no tax to pay? Should breeders have to pay a tax and only be allowed to breed so many dogs a year?

Apologies if I have this completely wrong and they do have to pay a tax etc.

Sounds about right. Done well the profits are marginal. Cut corners and "breeders" stand to make more ££. If a litter is small and a c section needed it's very easy to make a big loss irrespective of how lax pre breeding health checks/genetic testing etc have been.

I am always suspicious if the dog breeder has a big fancy car, designer clothes and flash home, expensive holidays etc etc. They are certainly doing it for the money. Rescue homes, however, could definitely do more to allow more families with children to rescue dogs. It makes no sense that anyone with children can get a puppy dangerous breed but the Westie or Labrador at the Dogs Home can only go to homes with no children.

Unfortunately whilst rescues make it difficult to re-home dogs people are always going to buy puppies, therefore people will always breed them.
We got turned down by a local rescue because our garden is raised up, so our fence is 6ft tall (fence +wall it stands on) on one side but only 5ft is measured from the other side - they would not re-home to a house with fences less than 6ft, no matter the size of the dog. It's arbitrary rules like that stop people rescuing and turn to breeders instead.

The breeder should pay tax as with any other earnings.

I'm a big believer in rehoming animals, but it's tricky with dogs. We need a very well behaved dog to go into the office with dp, and the chances of getting that with a puppy are greater because then we can train from the beginning.

We have many rescue animals, but we bought our dog from a breeder.

That's not quite fair. Some people are obsessed with shitadoodles and are keen to better the line/breed.

I think that's what made us feel uneasy. I've always been the type of person to think if something doesn't feel right walk away. My husband said the same and said let's just stick to our original plan as we've seen at least three dogs we both feel would be a good fit for our household and that they are a rescue.

The costs of properly rearing puppies up to the stage where they can be safely adopted should be high though with the vaccinations, proper food, puppy pads, time spent looking after them etc - this is why you must only buy from a reputable breeder who can provide all the paperwork. Some people do it for the money but really, from the experience of a friend, she really didn't make anything from it in the end.

Rescue is def the way to go - there are so many beautiful loving dogs in need of their forever homes.

I know someone who breeds dogs, infact you wouldn't even know they had a dog as the poor dog never ever leaves the house, only goes as far as the back yard to do her mess. the poor dog has never been walked and is just used as a money making breeding machine. The family have never worked and have always been on benefits but obviously make extra money by breeding the dogs. I really wish this wasn't allowed as the poor dog has no life other than producing puppies. RSPCA unwilling to do anything as the dog is adequately feed, watered and has bedding.

I don’t know any dog breeders but I have know a couple of cat breeders who do it for the money. One was awful, kept the cats in pretty poor conditions and didn’t do any vet checks/worming/anything. The other was much better but I still find it hard to understand pimping out beloved pets to make money

Add in pet insurance, stud fee for the mating and cost if the bitch needs a c-section. This could be in the hundreds of £.

That's really sad and ridiculous they couldn't do anything for them.

Well a lot of breeders don't care about your child's safety or if your home is suitable for the dog. I rescue and being honest a lot of Westies are biters. Often because people have left children mishandle them but they are one of the breeds that have a high tendency to bite.
People love to get labs thinking they are a calm easy child loving dog. They are hugely energetic and a lot of people can not provide them with enough exercise (hence why so many are overweight) a lot of the time people buy lab pups (this also happens with other breeds just using your example) and don't have the time to give them the exercise they need, the lab is bored and understimulated. They redirected that energy in to a nip and start to learn to nip as a way of either getting attention or redirecting their energy- the lab is then surrendered to rescue for biting and can not be rehomed with children. It's more common than you think.
There's also a rise of bad dog trainers who teach people to do things like get your child to stick their hand in the dogs food bowl to "show it who's boss" big surprise then when the dog becomes food aggressive and distrusting of children.
Rescues can't run on this dog hasn't bitten a child so can be homed with children, we have to make sure everyone is safe so can only home a dog with a child if we know for sure that dog is suitable to live with children.

It's very hard to match up a dog with a home with children when the adults are set on certain breeds or a certain dog. It is much easier if the person comes to us and says we have children of these ages live in this area have x amount of time for walking- then we can point you towards the dogs that would be suitable instead.

It’s hard work and expensive looking after puppies!

I know a dog breeder and she has 5 dogs. It's her business breeding them so she pays tax of course but there are so many things to pay for that they can't be making all that much.

The vet fees, vaccinations, microchipping, premium quality food plus raw food, KC registrations. She also sources owners before the pups are born and gets a full history on them to find the right pup for them. She speaks on the phone to them weekly to show pups with the mum and how they are growing. She sleeps on the couch for weeks while they are in the whelping box. The costs for their facilities must be pretty high too.

I can think of a lot of easier ways to make 10 extra grand a year than breeding puppies.

I’d report the bastards.

Done properly, you really don't make money from breeding dogs - it's really expensive to do! A hobby for those who are well off to start with

Unfortunately so few do it properly. Specialist health testing (wolfhounds should be heart tested prior to mating and puppies liver shunt tested.) They shouldn’t be having too many litters from one bitch or litters from young or older girls either. Puppies need to be supervised in the nest for about a month with mother. Left alone she can easily stand on one and kill it. The washing and feeding and getting them used to household noises etc etc. it’s a full on job. And you can easily make a loss.
I don’t think people should be randomly breeding their pets just to make money. Decent breeders care deeply about their dogs and the breed and invest time and expertise in getting it right.
We have cats and have always rescued. But a wolfhound was my dream dog. So I went to a breeder. I had an interview and a home check and she took references. Nearly 8 years on we are still in close contact and see each other regularly.

Done properly... there isn't a significant amount of money in breeding dogs.

That is - researching various lines - attending shows or working events/competitions to see various dogs/enter your own dogs (this gives you an outside, expert opinion on your dogs abilities/conformation, we all think our own dogs are wonderful of course, we need an outside view too)...

Raising and feeding your dog - travelling to the stud dog - stud fees (price of a puppy usually) - vet fees (breeding related costs are not insured generally) - maintaining a kennel affix costs, annually, you may also need local authority licensing which costs...

Feeding a bitch in-whelp and raising a litter costs a fair bit - you need to have a good 2 to 3K on hand in case you need an emergency C-section during whelping - all the kit puppies need costs - registration costs..

Good breeders do not piss off to work and leave Mum alone, so thats someone home with the dog and then dog and her puppies for a couple of months, not earning..

And yes then theres tax on that income..

Once you calculate all that, there isn't a huge profit.

But if you cut corners of course - no research, use the dog up the road, no showing, no competition, cheap food, no extra vet checks, cross your fingers and spit in your hat that you don't need any emergency vet care, and leave mum alone 9 to 5, 5 days a week... then yes, people do profit.

Really check that they are a good breeder - do they health test? Do they socialise and habituate puppies to typical family life (Smart Pup or Puppy Culture programs for example?), why did they choose the stud dog they used? How has the bitch and dog done in work/competition/showing (after all these dogs must have some attributes that make them worthy of reproducing beyond 'both the same breed'... )...

If answers to those questions are not inspiring... you're taking a massive and expensive gamble. If you are up for a gamble, you may as well gamble and go to a rescue and save a puppy who undoubtedly came from an ill prepared corner cutting breeder just like the one you're swerving... but for a fifth of the price.

In my view people who breed animals and are happy to sell a mother's babies are total sub human scum and deserve nothing good in life. How on earth anyone can sell an animals new borns is beyond me. Why humans are so fucked that they think they're superior to other races is beyond me. Imagine if this was done with humans.

Same they deserve only the absolute worst things to happen to them. Total heartless scum.

What a load of nonsense.

Applying human ethical standards to animals is idiotic and harmful. They have different ideas of the world, and therefore different needs to humans.

Mother dogs are generally utterly fed up with the pups by 8 weeks, and are only too happy to have some peace and quiet.

Dogs should only go to homes with children if they are known to be safe around children (safe for them too - some are terrified of kids). This is not something you can guess by breed, it has to be proven either from the dog's life before it went into rescue, or through foster care.

The more experienced dog people who are willing and able to foster, the more rescue dogs can be appropriately homed. It's just a million times better for the dog, the rescue and the prospective family than trying to assess from the stressful environment of a pound.

Do shutup, it's awful and people like you just enable it. Would you like it if your baby was sold ethically so your owner could go to Turkey for a week?

Of course I wouldn't like it, because I'm not a dog.

I'm also not likely to get into a fight to the death with my adolescent daughter, because I'm not a dog.

Don't treat animals like humans. It's cruel to the animals.