To not realise how much money is in selling puppies?

[Purplebiscuitwithsprinkles]

We've been on the look out for a puppy. We've decided to go for a rescue dog. Got chatting to a neighbour and they told us a neighbour around the corner is selling puppies at £1500 each x6. As far as we know all is above board and they are registered etc.

We were tempted to go for it as the dogs are on our list but something was niggling away at me so decided to stick with our original plan and go for a rescue dog. This is booked for a visit to a rescue centre tomorrow.

I suppose my AIBU is should people not be allowed to breed puppies and those wanting to get one should just get rescue/abandoned dogs instead? There's so many dogs in shelters but they seem to be so many being bred still.

I don't know the full ins and outs but £9,000 tax free is a lot of money from what I understand the neighbours have bred puppies before and made £10,000 so £19,000 in the space of two years with no tax to pay? Should breeders have to pay a tax and only be allowed to breed so many dogs a year?

Apologies if I have this completely wrong and they do have to pay a tax etc.

Well it's income so they should declare it on a tax return but I would imagine most of them don't.

Please ensure the parents have been health tested. Genuine breeders pay out money for that, hobby breeders do not. Mistake I made and my poor dog has heriditary glaucoma, something that could have been avoided. They made a fortune with a few litters that I knew of, probably much more. Never replied to another message after I handed the money over. My son meanwhile bought a dog from a top breeder, and the difference is huge. Lifetime support and guidance. There’s a lot of money in it and shame it’s not more regulated

They are supposed to register aswell now, but there’s probably some way around it. 100% shouldn’t be tax free income in my opinion

https://puppyschool.co.uk/puppy-advice/dogs-and-the-law

I might get on to the Local Authority and HMRC

Well it's income so surely they would have to pay tax? I can't see how it wouldn't be taxable unless there's a special exception, but if there is I didn't get taught about it when I did my exams. There are plenty of esoteric tax laws though so I may be misinformed.

I would guess plenty of people don't declare the income but that's a different issue.

You don't seem to know much about puppies/dogs, OP. Perhaps some more research is in order before you commit.

Our dog was bred as her parents were working lines, and the breeder kept one of her sisters to work. Anyone breeding daftypoos is unlikely to have good motivations.

I don’t know if they pay tax on it but I do know that there’re hidden costs with dog breeding like…

• health checks before breeding
• Male dog owner costs
• vet checks for the puppies
• worming, fleeing and chips for the puppies
• food for them all
• KC registration
• first lot of jabs

Yes I think that's what I'm trying to say too that it does need to be more regulated.

I'm just surprised as we've seen so many adverts for dogs sale but not much about the conditions they have been in...we've had a home check done, and an employer check to ensure we can afford it. I've read quite a few horror stories about breeders. That's why I'm surprised the prices and who can sell aren't regulated.

It's not tax free, it should be declared as income to hmrc on a tax return, and as income it will be taxed. Plus that's not all profit, if done properly, breeding puppies can be an expensive game. Vets bills, food, space to contain the mum and the pups when they are first born. Health checks, vet care for mum, breed registration, insurance, stud fees. It all adds up. Our vet also advised us that we should consider having the cost of an emergency c section stashed away, in case it was needed, as most pet insurance won't cover it. The overall cost was one reason we decided not to breed our dog in the end, plus the time commitment and the risk to our dog. It just didn't seem worth it in the end.

I age my BIL breeds cats and dogs because “you can make £10k from one litter” just makes me so angry they’re in it purely for the money.

Worst bit is they’re constantly going away on holiday or weekends away for their hobby and MIL and FIL in their 70s get dragged into looking after a house full of kittens and puppies.

Why do you say that? We have done our research to a point we are happy with. They are plenty of people who get dogs that have never had a dog before and learn as they go along...The neighbour showed us their certificate and membership as well as the vets they take them to etc I just felt abit uneasy contributing to their lifestyle.

It's also helped confirm our decision that we would prefer a rescue.

How awful 😢

It's not tax free if you're doing it properly.

Thanks for the replies all we were just intrigued. Obviously there's the good and the bad breeders out there.

Anyone who breeds three or more litters and sells at least one puppy in a 12 month period requires a licence

I know someone who bred her 2 dogs and ended up only selling 2 pups and ended up not being able to sell the last 4. They are pointers so big dogs.

Also £1500 is having a laugh.

Rescue is good OP. Well done you.

I occasionally breed a litter.

my stud fee I pay for the dog sire is usually £1200.

health checks for my bitch are £800-1200 depending on age as i like two heart scans done first really.

it costs me £250 for supplies for a whelping each time- always new vet bed for each litter, puppy safe disinfectants, surgical gloves etc etc etc

my puppies are always checked at approx 2 days old, usually about £100 for this.

then of course the puppies are wormed, vaccinated, chipped and registered about £75 each. so avg litter 6. £450

each pup goes with food as well, £15.- £90

to feed a lactating bitch properly and wean puppies properly is easily £5/6 a day. From 2 weeks to 9 week. £250.

let’s not forget my time off work, my electricity for the washing machine, the heat pads. And then a C section at 2am on a Sunday morning can be £4000x

absolutely, some people make money, and everyone should be declaring income.

if you do it properly, as a dedicated breeder who breeds very occasionally for a specific purpose (and to have a puppy for themselves normally!) then no, it’s not a money maker. My pups sell for £1000/1200 each.

i have only ever made a profit on one litter, of less than £1k.

Hah. There isn't as much money to be made as you think.

Sure I guess if you're just breeding your bitch with absolutely no consideration for her health, stud health, the breed, the puppies etc then yes I suppose you'd make a few grand under the table.

Breeders breeding for profit (anything more than it cost at base level to breed/raise) have to register and pay tax on that income like everyone else.

Stud fees are £££ for a tested, good stud. Health tests for the bitch is ££££. Puppy equipment, time off work (have you got 4 weeks of annual leave just to spend 24/7 with a litter of puppies for their first few weeks, if not the full 8 weeks?)
Vet costs, surgery costs, worming, puppy vaccinations, Microchips, advertising costs... the list goes on and on.
Nevermind when thoroughly vetted puppy owners STILL want to return said puppy for a full refund when it's a rambunctious but totally expected adolescent.

Most breeders I know only breed when they are going to keep one themselves, after doing all the above and more so its not simply a churn them out operation. They also provide lifetime advice and support and it's not uncommon to offer boarding when owners need holiday care, for just the cost of food.

If anyone wants to breed properly and seriously, they also need to spend time and money on becoming licensed with their local authority.

So yes, 'breeders' can make money. But if they are doing it properly, it's not anywhere near enough to make it 'easy' money or something any normal, sleep enjoying person would choose.

A good breeder who cares deeply about their puppies and their health and offers you years of ongoing support is worth every penny of that puppy fee.

Plus I home check, reference, contract and visit pups for life.

The rescue centre we have chosen does all of this (an adoption fee is applicable) and has lifetime support. Another reason why we are going to a rescue so we have the guarantee all of this has been done.

No one should be getting dogs nowadays - we are in a climate emergency and they are a luxury the planet cannot afford (with the exception of assistance and working dogs of course).
If people stopped getting dogs the demand for breeders will go down and that would save a lot of harm to dogs.
OP I see you are getting your dog from a rescue which is good.

It is not cheap to breed good puppies. I had a few KC small /medium breed litters and the costs were horrendous. The cost of suitable breeding stock, Health testing, stud and the food and costs for puppies and unexpected costs was horrific. My last litter turned out to be a whopping 9 babies in a 5kg bitch and ended up in a c section (with an established breeding bitch). Two pups weighed just 80-90g each an and required multiple vets trips and intensive round the clock treatment. I'm taking 30 minute interventions for 2 weeks. The mum was 5kg and the puppies and her foood cost an average of £90-110 a week back then and then add in costs for an emergency c section and spay and I didn't even cover costs for that litter AND it wiped out the small money I'd made from the previous litter. It was a miracle that all 9 babies and mum survived.

Breeding any species of animal is a huge gamble and is filled with heartache. I've also kept and bred multiple species of tortures, lizards and snakes and none of out cooked euros issues, heartache and huge vets bills.

Thank you for explaining. It's helpful to know to see why people are charging so much if it's costing this much.

I seriously doubt that any rescue centre has done health checks on their dogs. I think you're confusing this as a simple health visit to the vet, but for breeders this is extensive DNA testing, specialist eye and hip testing etc. This is beyond the remit of an average vet and costs a lot.