Women with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome

[Tandora]

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/androgen-insensitivity-syndrome/symptoms/#:~:text=Girls%20with%20CAIS%20do%20not,make%20some%20sexual%20acts%20difficult.
Inspired by the dumpster fire of a certain thread that filled up just now -
AIBU to share some information about girls and women with CAIS. Many of these women and girls won’t learn about their variation in sex characteristics until adulthood. Some might never know and not without the assistance of modern technologies (that can test , eg, karyotype). For cases of CAIS identified at birth, most individuals are assigned/ registered/ raised female. (Yes sex can be assigned).

Anyone who could know a girl/ woman with CAIS in the real world, and tell her she is , in fact , unambiguously a boy/ man, because gametes, - well you would deserve worse than to be called a sexual fascist.

The NHS recognises the existence of girls and women with CAIS , and provides medical interventions accordingly.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/androgen-insensitivity-syndrome/symptoms/#:~:text=Girls%20with%20CAIS%20do%20not,make%20some%20sexual%20acts%20difficult.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK1429/

Yes these conditions are rare, but the more we learn about the biology of sex development , the more complex the picture becomes, as with most areas of science/ biology/ medicine .

It's a medical issue / disability.

If you don't meet the criteria to enter the Olympics then set up an alternative for people with a similar condition in the Paras.

Job done.

Oh wait that doesn't involve a power trip over women and hurting women. It also means admitting you have a medical condition and they don't want to be associated with other people with medical issues / disabilities because of internalised disablism.

Better just to abuse women for not budging up and refusing to except unfairness and unacceptable risks in women's sport.

@Tandora But you categorically do not know that Imane Khelif has any DSD, let alone this one. Did you literally trawl through all of them to find one to suit your narrative?

It's interesting that the two most common DSDs that don't offer an obvious advantage (studies have shown that women with CAIS are overrepresented in sport, but it's perfectly fine everywhere for them to compete and not considered an issue), have been mentioned on this thread.

Women with CAIS and Swyers are not the issue here, nor are they a trojan horse for you to use to derail the legitimate debate about male physiological advantage being used to unfairly compete in women's sport.

So? XY 5 ARD males develop as males during puberty. None of them get past about age 14 without it becoming clear they are male. Raised as a girl until puberty then turning into a teenage boy must be fucking confusing and distressing for them but it's hardly a secret. Caster Semenya was raised as a boy from puberty when his genuine sex became obvious. Yet he still chose to compete against women in order to win. It's cheating.

But it really doesn’t matter what value judgements you attach to their development- (I’m sure god would be displeased and all , and feel free to consider them to be broken/ disordered all you want etc, being gay used to be considered a disorder it’s also a useless reproductive strategy after all!!). Regardless of all that, people are who they are and they are born with the bodies they are born with . This is natural human variation that exists in the world.

The point is simply that the physiology of human sexual development is varied and complex and it’s not as simple as saying if your karyotype is XY , or if you have this type of gamete you are a man , and therefore you have an advantage in sport, etc etc.

Regardless of all that, people are who they are and they are born with the bodies they are born with .

Does that apply to all disabled people and people with medical conditions? It's both a pointless platitude and extremely callous.

🤣 🤣 🤣 God, it’s been ages since I’ve seen that article 😂

But how do you know Imane Khelif has CAIS? Noone knows that they have any DSD, but there are plenty where they do go through male puberty.

The only thing we do know is that the IAB found them ineligible to compete in the women's category due to concerns over safety and fairness. Therefore it is a scandal that the IOC has overruled that.

Although people with total androgen insensitivity don’t have the benefits of testosterone for sporting performance, the XY chromosome means they are taller, don’t have the female pelvis, periods, etc, which affect the performance of those with xx chromosomes.

Being 'raised a woman'(whatever that means)doesn't make him a woman.

Absolutely it does - we shouldn’t pass ableist value judgements on disabled bodies either. No idea at all why you think that is a callous thing to say

Neither male boxer has yet claimed to have a DSD so this could be direct cheating with or without state collusion.

Isn’t it coincidental how many people with DSD end up being elite athletes in women’s sports.

What are the chances?

I was listening to something about the olympic boxers on the radio earlier. I do have sympathy for anyone living with this condition and they are not trying to gain an unfair advantage by assuming a different gender. However, if they have physiological traits which give them an unfair advantage, particularly in a sport like boxing where physical harm could be done to an opponent, then it just cannot be allowed.

It's a really difficult question to answer, because pretty much all professional athletes have physiological traits that give them an advantage. Typical example would be Michael Phelps's wingspan. How do we decide which advantages are allowed and which aren't.

It's not a black and white subject. I feel very sorry for the women at the centre of this, having their anatomy scrutinised like this.

Lesbian women are also overrepresented in female sport. Black men are overrepresented in many male sports. Do they have an unfair advantage because of their physiology / genetics?

Also, the disproportionate number of people, with XY chromosomes + some degree of androgen insensitivity /DSD at women’s Olympic level of capability, suggests an unfair advantage, whatever way you look at it.

What have lesbians got to do with it?

Oh ffs. You do realize the AUTHOR of this article has personally debunked the misleading title?

They are overrepresented in female sports. Is that enough to say they have an unfair group advantage and should be banned from participating?

I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of male boxers who want to hit women turned out to be lesbians.

No.

Oh dear, bit desperate

None of Michael Phelps's records still stand so he wasn't as extraordinary as all that it turned out.

Now take his records and consider what would happen if he'd transitioned to female before competing?

Some DSDs confer a similar advantage to that of M2F transition. It's important for fairness and, certainly in boxing, safety.

Not to anything like the same degree.

And if we say that the male advantage is just the same as someone like Michael Phelps having long arms and big feet, then the logical conclusion of that isn't DSD athletes in women's sport - it's the end of women's sports. They are not needed, because there is no categorical male advantage. The very best female athletes can try their luck against males, maybe one could break into a world championship one day, but there would be virtually no household name sportswomen. In that world you'd probably never have even heard of the Williams sisters.

Wow, you really jumped the shark there 😂

But well done for demonstrating your true motivation.