To feel sad looking at this group of mums.

[AugMummy]

At my childrens swimming lesson today. They’re also in same school as my DD and sane class so I see them out and about all the time. It just makes me feel sad that I’ll never have that connection with a group of women. I was even talking to one of how I was feeling (I get really on nicely with her) she said she knows what I mean as during covid when she couldn’t meet up with her friends (the same group of mums) She felt like that. Individualy they are all lovely and I’ve tried to really get along by inviting for play dates, coffee etc. but then I never feel part of their group and they’ve never invited me as a group. I’ve got to the point where I accept it and just keep to hi and bye and have a conversation when I see them but I accept they have something wonderful I don’t ever have.

I just feel if I had been brought up into a loving and caring family that wasn’t dysfunctional I too could have had that.

Just echoing others, that you sound really great. We relocated for work 2 years ago and I now have zero friends. I know people from my work, but despite my efforts volunteering etc, I do not have one friend. I do invite people out, or suggest meet ups, but everyone else has a full diary, I do not. If you lived near me, I'd happily meet up.

Luckily I have one old friend from where we used to live, and she is always up for meeting up every couple of months.

I too was bullied at school and I’ve never really managed to be part of a group of female friends too. Sending hugs op

I don't think people form real life friendships at school gates with other mums. You form friendships in childhood and uni and keep them? Or, rather, you try not to lose friendships you have formed before becoming a mum. I have met wonderful colleagues in adult life, but friends, none. I kept my old ones.

The group of mums I was talking about are the main PTA volunteers. I’ve helped out lots of times and know them from there.

"I don't think people form real life friendships at school gates with other mums. "

@EI12

I completely disagree. I think it's really common to form close friendships with primary school mums .

I'm so sorry you had such horrible things happen to you as a child.

I remember finding it hard with mum groups. I used to go to a toddler group where some of the mums would go for lunch every week at each other's houses just after the group had finished. I remember feeling quite left out and wanting to know if they all knew each other from a particular NCT group, in which case it didn't seem so bad to not be in that group, or whether they had just met each other some other way (I think it was the latter as I'm sure not all the children were born at around the same time). Several of my mum's closest friends were people she knew from baby groups which used to make me regret not having a group as well - though now that my children are older, I think about this much less.

I never feel good as part of a group of women... I always feel like I'm the weird one and expect people say things behind my back and get really para.

I've sort of just learnt to live with it. I remind myself that what other people think of me is none of my business. I have no way of knowing and there is probably an equal chance I'm over thinking it. Apparently finding it hard to fit in with a group is a sign of neurodiversity, i have some other markers of adhd so do wonder about that too...

Sorry not sure if it's helpful but you aren't alone!!

Hello OP, I don't have any advice as I have similar issues and don't know what the answer is but I just wanted to say I'm really sorry you've been through so much. You sound lovely and I'd love to be your friend! Unmumsnetty hugs to you xx

@EI12

I've made proper friendships past uni. In fact, all I'd my most valuable friendships have been made since then.

Personally, I struggle in groups of women, always have.

Don't get me wrong, I love women, but I just don't enjoy socialising with them in large groups.

Aiming for friendships with individuals you have something in common with and feel comfortable around is (imo) a better goal.

Oh that’s disappointing, and it does seem like they should be more friendly. Maybe they’re just not very nice people.

I’m now remembering how awkward those times of watching swimming lessons can be, and who sits where, and feeling like you’re the only person without someone to chat to, and not being sure where to sit when you first arrive. It’s almost as bad as being 14 years old in a school canteen!

Im sorry you’ve been through so much. The way people treated you when you were little was vile and not your fault.

Absolutely, very defeatist to say you can only make closer, life long friendships earlier in life. I would say that a few of my closest friends were made in the last 5 years and I'm 50. My mother is almost 80 and her ride or die bestie is someone she has known for a few decades but only gotten really close to in the last decade. Friendship is wonderfully surprising and can happen at any age or stage, don't give up OP. You sound so lovely.

I really want to start making changes in my life. I do often feel life would be better if I could just relax and try to feel at ease with people. Can anyone recommend any podcasts or books/courses for low self-esteem please.

Have you considered therapy?

Trying to join an already established friendship group is really difficult. They have shared history and routines, in jokes etc. I’ve lived in the same city all my life and know lots of locals and we had kids around the same time. I wouldn’t even try this.
It’s easier to talk to one person through a shared interest. Or when your child makes friends with another child get to know their mum on a 1:1 basis.
I read an article recently where a mum was experiencing the same thing and she got the peanut app and found a friend living nearby.

Makes perfect sense. There was a report published a while back, Cambridge I think, about socio-economical grounds for female and male friendships, fascinating read. Men must know how to form friendships and interact in groups because otherwise they would not have been successful hunters and died. Women, on the other hand, are gatherers, and no gatherer would want to be in a group and divulge info about where the berries, mushrooms, etc. are. We are also weaker and (genetically) have to compete for the attention of the alpha male to survive and at the same time we are too weak to fight other females for him, hence cattiness and character assassinations by females. If you put wokery aside, it was a fascinating read and a good explanation. Always had the same feeling and ambivalence about female 'friendships' in groups.

I saw them again at another event today and I feel so stupid for always trying to be friendly and chatty. They never attempt to say hello until I say it first I noticed today. I said hello and asked how they are (one to one as it was spread out) and they just seemed really dis-interested. Not rude but just very cold and couldn’t be bothered. I really wish I had just sat away from them and just read my book but instead I was trying to be friendly.

I’m going to keep my distance now. I had a really horrible feeling that I don’t know how to describe it was a feeling like I felt ashamed of how I was trying to be friendly and they probably think I’m desperate for their friendship! Truthfully I am very lonely but also I don’t have the headspace for any dramas so I’m kind of glad I’m not in their group. I’m going to focus on my kids now and not be so bothered whether this group of women like me or think I’m trying to hard.

I hear you 💐

No shame in trying OP. They aren't the right people for you

There are other women in the world other than this group OP, it's not them or nothing! Please don't give up on forming friendships, there are lots of avenues to doing so - neighbours, through volunteering, other mothers of your children's friends, work, hobbies. If nothing else, you'll be working on your friendship muscles and observing the world and what makes people tick, always very interesting. And be a good friend to yourself and enjoy your own company, take yourself out for lunch or for a hike or a cycle, develop a passion for something. I had a complex and challenging childhood myself, nothing on the scale of what you experienced but you have done so well to be here and to build a family, just keep going to get the rest of what you deserve. Despite what some might say, good female friendships are worth their weight in gold and worth striving for and putting oneself out for.

Your posts are so sad @AugMummy. I'm so so sorry that you had such a rotten childhood.

I really think you should consider therapy to work on your self esteem.

In all honesty, these women simply sound like they're not your people. And I think you've realised that yourself so that's good in itself.

Please do not close your heart to making friendships and bonds though, it's so important. Find some hobbies, do things that interest you, take a class in something you have always wanted to try, join a hiking group and 'put yourself out there'. Just because these women (who sound insufferably rude and cliquey) have closed ranks doesn't mean other wonderful women are not open to being your friend.

In your update they sound like they’re unfriendly so why would you want to be like them? Whereabouts do you live?

Have I got this right - you have children at the same year at the same school? They did not ask you over/ wave at you/ start chatting ? That strikes me as a bit odd and deffo unfriendly of them.

OP this sounds really hard
and you’ve dealt with so much as a child facing severe racism,Im so sorry to hear this , I really feel for you. I grew up in london, faced very little Racism myself, but since becoming a mum have found mums groups very cliquey and divisive! Many divide on race and class ! I hadn’t experienced this until becoming a mum! Often despite kids being best friends with each others mums will keep their distance from other mums, and it’s hard to break into groups. A friend mentioned an app where you can meet like minded mums maybe try

For what it’s worth, I have a small group of mum friends and if another mum from our kids class came over and sat with us we would welcome her with open arms and just simply include her from then on. It’s awkward for them to invite you over because they’re probably thinking you might not want to and it’s awkward for you to go over because you think they might not want you. Reality is someone has to make the first move. Making friends is scary whatever age you are. It makes you feel like a kid again but I don’t often meet adults that would reject a person in this scenario.