To feel sad looking at this group of mums.

[AugMummy]

At my childrens swimming lesson today. They’re also in same school as my DD and sane class so I see them out and about all the time. It just makes me feel sad that I’ll never have that connection with a group of women. I was even talking to one of how I was feeling (I get really on nicely with her) she said she knows what I mean as during covid when she couldn’t meet up with her friends (the same group of mums) She felt like that. Individualy they are all lovely and I’ve tried to really get along by inviting for play dates, coffee etc. but then I never feel part of their group and they’ve never invited me as a group. I’ve got to the point where I accept it and just keep to hi and bye and have a conversation when I see them but I accept they have something wonderful I don’t ever have.

I just feel if I had been brought up into a loving and caring family that wasn’t dysfunctional I too could have had that.

Maybe the last statement in your post is part of the issue. Family does shape us a lot but doesn't determine how likable you are. Where did that statement even come from? I'm not sure why you would be thinking about that when considering reasons you don't fit in with a group.

They can be but they can also be good fun and a source of company and support. The OP wants to be part of the group, not trash the group. And that is a very legitimate feeling, I don't think the whole 'if they don't like you they must be bitches/not worth knowing' thing ever makes anyone feel any better does it?

I agree with others that if you’ve spoken to them all individually and get on, and if you’re in a shared public space at two separate tables then you could pick up the courage to say hello and ask if you could join for a bit. You don’t even have to stay long if you don’t want to, can always say “I’ve got a few mins to spare before I need to rush off, but do you mind if I join you?” They can’t really say no, and you’ve got an out if the conversation really falters. I doubt it will.

So, I feel the same about these mum groups but I’m actually in one? I’m in a group of nursery mums, we occasionally see each other at the park, and we’re all all the same birthday parties. But it doesn’t stop me feeling awkward and an outsider. From the outside I’m in the thick of things and having a lovely time. Inside I find it pretty difficult. Mum friends are always a bit situational and I doubt many survive when one moves away.

I understand. I moved a few years ago and had to leave behind my own lovely little group. Since then I've become friendly with individuals in a group, all mums of DC in same class as mine. In this context I'd sit with them and chat, we get on ok, but I will never be part of the group. They see each other at weekends, their husbands are all friends, do sports together, holidays, the works. They also all have younger babies the same age. It's tough because I see an alternative universe where I met them in baby class and was part of the group, and I don't have any groups of my own. I've had to just make my peace with it.

Ah OP you do sound so lonely 💐 your husband needs to step up here, have you talked to him about how you feel? My husband is a big part of the reason I don’t always feel alone, I’m not great with people and I do feel lonely sometimes too but he always makes me feel like I’m interesting and important. He may not realise that you need more from him while you are out there trying to make friends.

Some of us never feel like we fit in, you aren’t alone x

Oh, I couldn't agree more. I would like to think I'm that person too, hate seeing people left out.
Why don't you invite some of the mums for a wee play date at yours (if you are able) put on some cakes and things.
You deserve friendship, sometimes you have to be bold sweetie.😜
You have nothing to loose!!

Actually it is ok to be part of an established group.

Sometimes an established group is nice. And it shouldn't be changed. The dynamics of it work and no one wants it to change. Eg my png is 5 and we like it that way, we meet, but we also see eachother at plenty of other functions and don't always spend much time together then but it's fine.

Loads of my friends have groups from postnatal group, to university friends who go and watch all the Shakespeare plays together, to primary mums in a group, who stood this test of time and still friends 15 years later or old work colleagues who still get together?

there's loads and loads of people who have an established group who shouldn't be criticised for wanting to keep that very established group with all the history that they have the same and may not actually want someone Coming in.

Rather than trying to join the group, why don't you just invite them all around for a big barbecue the whole year mums?

Or try and make your own group with other Mums. join a group , any other sort of group and make your own group. you'd be surprised how very quickly a group can form. and how very quickly it can have history together and be very solid .

I totally feel you @AugMummy . We moved to a new city when my kids were babies/toddlers and I felt like such an outsider for such a long time. I felt like I’d never find “my tribe”. Finally now my kids are 6-11 I have a lovely group of school Mum friends, but it took a long time. So give it time, make a lot of effort and it will come to you.

The group of Mums that you know and like - could you reach out with an invitation for them to come to your house/garden for drinks or a food? Try to put yourself out there by initiating it. You’ll hopefully find they will reciprocate after. X

You are lucky! You have the time to read, do something useful with your life instead of a chit-chat with a group which may turn out not to be that interesting. You have MN - you can come here, exchange views and interact, and leave the moment you want to, without being encumbered with social graces. Have you watched all the wonderful 1950-1980s films, which are amazing compared to today's? Checked out your local galleries and museums? You have so much more than trying to fit into a group being an adult!

Where do you live OP? I'll come hang out with you x

I am lucky enough that after a horrible childhood of no friends and bullying that I do have a group of friends now. It's taken a long time but every day I feel so, so grateful. I really, really hope that if there is another mum feeling lonely around my area that I never make them feel excluded like you have been.

I would suggest a hobby - I enjoy seeing and there have been a couple of local groups over the years and I have made a couple of friends through that.

I hope it does get better for you. Sometimes peopl are very oblivious to what they are doing or not doing.

I feel for you - I too look at tightknit groups of friends with envy, but I have to remind myself that one of my skills is to move between groups. I’ve always been that way, since school. I act as a kind of ‘associate member’ of lots of these groups, joining in when I see them or as and when invited. But never in their core gang. I imagine it makes me seem busy and popular as I move between lots of people, but secretly I yearn for one really close ‘ride or die’ group. Guess the grass is always greener on the other side! :)

OP start your own group! I bet if you look around there are others feeling like you. Organise a few one on ones and then expand from there.
And/or like others have said be bold and join in with the others. Maybe if you’ve cooled it to hi/bye then they think you’re not interested. Good look OP

I know what you're getting at here but humans are generally social creatures and real life friendships are important to the vast majority.

My advise is to focus on building one-on-one relationships and become the magnet that brings those singular (?) friendships together to form a new group. It may work in some cases and not work in others, or not work for all the time for every friend but you have a good chance of creating your own group at the end.

At the end of the day each participant in this friendship group didn't know the others at some point, and someone kind of consolidated them (pack-leader figure or similar).

Thank you all so much. I had a very dysfunctional childhood with neglect and lots of physical, emotional and sexual abuse. I never had any friends in school and would sit alone. When I got to university I fell into a deep depression as there were lots of Indians l there (I never saw Indians that were not family before!) so I automatically assumed they would take me into their friendship groups and I would have friends but they all said I was weird (I probably was). I had no idea how to dress or behave. Then when I got to my 20’s and started working I met this girl who helped me dress better and taught me how to behave (such as eat with my mouth closed lol!). I got really “normal”, I went out and got lots of attention as people thought I was pretty. I had a good life then I married DH and I kind of started staying in more and I moved away to live in his hometown. Been married 12 years and I have never made any friends here. I was always told when I have kids I will make friends well I have 3 kids - aged 10, 8 and 5 and I still don’t feel like I fit in anywhere.

sorry if I’ve shared too much!

Agree with this. Having just had my oldest child leave primary and been part of a group that became increasingly cliquey, bitchy and introvert I can see the pitfalls. This mums groups kids started bullying every other child in the year and the mums would get together, sit and slagg of everyone else's kids as apparently there's where perfectly behaved. It became a smaller and smaller group and the kids became more and more disliked. Personally I stay clear of mum's groups now.

Don't apologise for sharing too much. Please stop that. You are entitled to speak, to take up space, and to write as much as you like. You're no more or less important than any other poster on here, or anything other person you meet. Please don't ever forget that or let anyone tell you otherwise.

OP I think you need some therapy or some counselling of some kind. I too had a horrible childhood and it does affect you into your adult life. It hinders my ability to make friends too and guess what - I'm also weird AF! but trust me, all the best and most interesting people are! I bet you too are really fun and interesting underneath all that anxiety and self doubt.

But my overwhelming advice to you would be please try and seek some help to work on yourself and heal from your difficult time because you can't really move on from that and learn how to navigate the world properly until you do.

@orangesandlemonssaythebellsofstclements thank you x

I’m so sorry you also had a horrible childhood.

I have had therapy in the past but hasn’t really helped. I’ve been reading about Trauma and came across a lady called Anna Runkle whose very good and insightful. Also a book I can’t remember author was called “the body keeps the score”

Oranges and Lemon’s post says it very well. Perhaps your lack of confidence from a bad childhood is still affecting you lots now and you could benefit from counselling.
You mention you are seen as pretty - this can be a reason not to be embraced by the group. Groups of mums can be super competitive about everything. Try not to be too sad. Keep trying with the friendly one in the group but beware the group as a whole. Good luck.

oh, and btw I am coming from white European but immigrant background and have grown up with zero exposure to my own ethnic group outside my family, which somewhat led me to developing an idealised view I was fed growing up. Then, when I started meeting more of them (or us) later in life I realised how much I didn't fit with them; it was mindboggling as living in London I developed friendships with such a diverse group in general that this was odd, and I am still not sure what the reason could be.
Do not sweat race, ethnicity and religion side too much, as it gets you feel even more inadequate. "These are supposed to be MY PEOPLE" but they are not.

That’s so true. The girl who helped me was White, English and she has been the most decent and lovely person I have ever come across. I lost contact with her and I think she moved away from where we worked together.

I think @orangesandlemonssaythebellsofstclements is right - when you have unprocessed trauma, all your relationships exist through that filter and you can’t be as happy in yourself.

Tackling that is hard and scary, but the rewards are worth it. It’s so much easier to make and keep friendships when you’re in a healthy and resilient state of mind.

Sometimes it takes time to find the right therapy for you. You don't always get the right help the first time x

Is there a school PTA? If there is, they’re likely desperate for new volunteers and that can be a nice way to get to know other mums and feel like part of a group.