Are parents in Cambridge uniquely ineffectual?

[ohrly]

Name change. I apologise for the clickbait title, my observations are based solely on our (primary) school and not all parents here.

We moved here six months ago from a more working-class area. Although that area had its problems, parents generally ensured their kids had basic manners, proper grooming, and weren't violent.

However, at my son's new school, I've noticed a significant lack of manners among many kids. Parents don't seem to enforce them either. The children demand things from their parents and others and are generally rude.

There are a few kids, despite being over seven years old, who frequently hit and push others. Parents respond with mild comments like "Oh no, that's not nice" instead of a more assertive, proportionate reaction like, "Do not hit. If you do that again, we will go home."

Parents also don't seem to enforce boundaries effectively. Instead of saying "5 minutes until we leave the park," they ask, "Are you ready to go now? Okay sweetie, no worries."

Moreover, parents often talk about their kids in a way that suggests the children are in control. They say things like, "Oh, she won't let me..." or "Oh, she doesn't like..." A common issue is kids refusing to let their parents brush their hair, resulting in matted hair.

At parties, no parents watch what's happening, and the kids go quite wild. I've had to stop myself from telling off so many kids.

These observations span a mix of nationalities, but all are middle-class families.
Is this a common occurrence now, or is it specific to Cambridge, this school, or the middle classes? Or am I just going mad?!

I honestly thought I was a super liberal parent until I moved here!

YABU - Stop judging / this isn't a real thing
YANBU - Yes these parents sound dreadful

I think if the school system could spot people like this and provide a slightly different kind of schooling with an emphasis on solving all these problems it would set these families on a much better path.
How are the schools to.solve immunity and breathing problems?
I also doubt this 'slightly different kind of schooling* would be a 1 size fits all, so how would the over stretched teacher as it is manage to teach the class as it is, plus 10+ say individual different kinds of schooling in the class?

Unrelated to children but your overheard example reminded me of a friend who once saw a hippy couple coming out of a new age shop in Glastonbury arguing.

'I can't help it if my aura is too small.' the lady shouted.

No, I think the parents in these cases just fancy themselves as a boho earth parent and convinced themselves their ‘approach’ has nothing to do with the fact their kids are anxious and immature, they usually start doubling down and saying they need even more gentle parenting because of their issues. None so blind as those who will not see.

Schools don’t have a hope in hell of achieving such an individualised approach to their students, there isn’t the resources for that, it isn’t possible. It’s parents jobs to prepare their children for society and life. It’s on them to do these things.

It reminds me of the scene in About a Boy when Marcus is about to go on stage and embarrass himself in front of the school and Hugh Grant wants to stop him, his mum is horrified and says ‘you can’t stop him from expressing himself’ and HG says ‘but he isn’t expressing himself, he’s expressing you’

We were recently at a NT property sitting outside the cafe having an afternoon tea. On the next table were a large group consisting of a few couples and several children. After a while the children started playing tag, shrieking and chasing each other round and round our table while we trying to have a quiet drink and conversation. Their parents watched them indulgently probably thinking how cute and never thought to call them back or that they might be spoiling it for someone else’s.

These parents do seem to think they and their dcs are so special that they don’t need to follow social codes of conduct and they must be indulged by everyone. I take university students on clinical placements and I can see the ones who have been parented this way.

I think this is what SEMH (social emotional and mental health) schools are for, but there aren't enough of them. A lot of these kids end up being forced into "elective" home education where they have only their parents to help them. There should be special schools for the kids who have genuine disabilities.

I totally get that some parents are just entitled brats who are raising entitled brat kids, but in some cases there is genuine disability and genuine struggle, and society and the school system don't currently get that.

Read what I put just after 😵‍💫

Hi :)

that is why I think there is a misunderstanding. So she should observe and see how things go.

I am just not thinking if it was so horrible she would post on musmnet and not have a word with the headteacher 🫣
how were the reviews of the school? It they are horrible then yes it is probably horrible but then it isn’t really necessary to call out all Cambridge parents?

🌺

When I was young I lived in a terrible estate in the North East the children were completely wild and had few boundaries. They would run around until 10 pm, sometimes vandalise my car, throw things at us, rob houses, riding bikes etc they were completely feral having a great time.
We moved to a posh area in the South and at the middle class primary school it was surprisingly similar in some respects, children with no discipline although the middle class parents do steer them into academia.

Ok the flower is random and I still don’t really get what you’re saying. Can you put it simply?

Same. "Just observe" sounds like 'watch while my, clearly more superior and academic child expresses themselves
assaults yours while I indulgently observe and praise them for their prowess'.

I think this has got to be one of the most interesting to read Mumsnet threads of late.

I am the OP.

I am not talking about school behaviour (I hope that is better). I am talking about behaviour at social occasions with people from school.

And, to be clear, I am not going around telling off other people's children.

I observe and occasionally step in to manage situations other parents seem blind to when I am concerned about safety.

My thinking is that either the op really needs to change school and not attend the socials with them or she is wrong in thinking that the behaviors aren’t manage by the parents but in a way that she isn’t used to.

Erm. No 🤷🏼‍♀️

Hi op :)

in the school, there will be plenty of people and so plenty of different way of parenting/not parenting.

I don’t think I ever told off another kid because it isn’t my place however I did retrieve my kid from situations I deem inappropriate. I then don’t go around saying that the parents aren’t good 🤷🏼‍♀️

can you give exemple of things you “had to intervene” and the other parent didn’t? You did say hitting and pushing but can you describe a whole situation?
if it is indeed just inappropriate, surely don’t cuss all the parents from there and try to find others more suited to your views?

🌺

So what exactly are you just observing then?

I often think highly educated people don't understand what soft parenting actually is. So they tend to be the "Don't do that dear" brigade. I can imagine Cambridge being particularly bad due to its University.

I won't describe a whole situation as I can't think of a way to do it without it being outing.

There are a variety of approaches but at every party we go to, every informal hang-out after school etc. there is a significant portion of unruly and rude kids with parents not watching them properly or setting appropriate boundaries. The trouble is that these kids dominate.

We have found friends whose kids don't wreck our house, push over our son, or demand things rudely (thankfully) and we stick with them as much as possible as the others are awful to hang around with.

The reason I posted this is not to bitch and moan about these parents, but to understand what is going on. It feels like a real phenomenon here that I hadn't experienced before. And others have supported this view.

@ohrly what you describe sounds like plain bad manners. All I can think is - are the parents exhausted and therefore just giving up on the setting of boundaries and necessary reinforcing and spelling of social norms? A distance from the extended family and /or both parents long hours might contribute? Otherwise, SEN of some sort? If not caused by neurodiversity, that awful behaviour doesn’t sound like the outcome of a holistic , well considered parenting approach, just like giving up!

We, like you, simply never invited back children that poorly behaved. My children are popular, we have a large house and garden and are generous with including others on fun day trips at no cost to them, but if a child is badly behaved, they’re never invited again. Natural consequences.

Ok, so you want to understand what is happenning…

fair enough to not describe a particular event but it will be hard to give a good opinion then. I think that you need to read what is happening attaching yourself to understand where they come from, what they try to emulate and also if it is indeed not effective or if it is just different.

there are loads of “gentle parenting” going on so I am thinking what you describe is actually what it looks like if you have different view.

hope it helps!
🌺

Yes, partly I worry I may be overstating this. The simple answer is just "don't hang around with the annoying parents/kids" and perhaps it is the case that badly behaved kids can be found anywhere (in any social strata) and my observations are just apophenia.

But on the other hand, I am quite a good observer of people and these ways of parenting are new to me and against my instincts.

That :)

I agree it does sound like gentle parenting.

Part of me is dubious that these children from families that are more child-led and critique social norms all happen to choose to defy the same small number of social norms. But an
My little one, if I let him follow his own preferences with no regard for social norms, would choose not to wear clothes. Every time, I rekon.

I got really exhausted with getting him out the door at one point and decided to go with a more child-led approach and we got to I think three days of not leaving the house (maybe it was only two) before I gave up and went back to pulling him onto my lap and pushing his arms and legs through the clothes. He really does love going out and meeting up with friends, doing stuff, but he doesn’t like clothing enough (or have the attention span) to do it himself if I say, we’ll walk to the bridge and play pooh sticks / go to play group / &c. once you’re dressed. I guess if I was a real child led critiquer of social norms I’d let him leave the house partially or completely undressed but that’s not going to happen.
Is this a really daft thing to post and I completely misunderstand what child-led / gentle parenting is? (Or is my child destined to be a conformist clone because I don’t let him down the street in a pyjama top and a pair of gum boots and nothing in between???)

This is a very relevant example because I have seen kids in Cambridge coming to school in their pyjamas!

I agree that you can't do everything based on what children want or with their consent. Give them some control and choice, yes, but total control, no.

It’s one of the reasons we left Bristol 20 years ago op 😂