DC’s teacher didn’t go to university.

[RabbitWedge]

Two of my DC’s are at the same secondary private school. It’s a small private school, not a well known name, but costs a small fortune nonetheless. An interaction with one of my DC’s English teachers at the end of term has made me feel uncomfortable.

‘Mrs Jones’ has worked at the school for a number of years. She is a very well liked English teacher; the children love her and she’s given high praise on the parents WhatsApp group. At the end of term, I was having a casual chit chat with ‘Mrs Jones’ and the topic of university came up. I asked ‘Mrs Jones’ where she went to university, and she stated that she had not gone and didn’t have a degree. I must have looked very taken aback, as she quickly added that she had an impeccable educational record (apparently all A’s and A*’s), she’d been tutoring for a number of years and working as a TA, at which point the school promoted her to teach English. I didn’t ask for this explanation, but she perhaps felt the need to justify her teaching.

I was under the impression that all teachers had to have degrees at the very least, and whilst I don’t doubt her popularity and delivery of her English lessons, I am concerned. I was aware that teachers in the private system didn’t need to be qualified teachers, but to not even have attended university seems unsuitable.

Would you raise this with the school in my position?

Thing is, in many subjects, there are a vast array of different topics. I have a master's in History but know pretty much zip about China, the unification of Italy or the Korean war. I have been asked to teach A level units in things I haven't previously studied so swotted up over the holidays and was fine. Just having a degree in X subject doesn't mean you're an expert in. ALL aspects. Provided the teacher is committed, literate and has a good work ethic the lack of a degree is not necessarily an issue.

Having more freedom to teach what you’re interested in as a private school teacher is worrying. What if you had a particular interest in Russian literature and disliked Shakespeare - so no student studies The Tempest or The Winters Tale 😱😱 that was a rite of passage for me and should be for all. Shakespeare isn’t my favourite but I have fond memories of my English lessons. I want my children to be taught according to curriculum and not off piste!! What if the teacher hasn’t read any Dickens or Jane Austen or Elizabeth Gaskell or any poetry. Or Shakespeare. Alot of time is spent devising curriculums. And for good reason. I still remember Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner. North and South. Pride and prejudice. I really hope my English teacher would have studied such works of art.

You said she's very well liked and the children love her and I presume she can teach, I don't see what the big deal is.

Our English speaking school had a Welsh teacher and when a bilingual parent started a conversation with her the Welsh teacher admitted she couldn't understand what the parent was talking about. She was fluent but not bilingual.

There was a teacher at my children's primary state school who was a TA and then started doing day release to get a teaching qualification. As far as I could tell she did seem to get a class of her own before she had finished the teaching qualification. Perhaps your teacher is doing something like this?

If she genuinely has pupils passing with As and A*s (or whatever the equivalents are called nowadays), I don't see what your problem is.

But if you are an engaged and intellectually curious person you can gain that higher knowledge though your own independent reading and study.

It's equally possible to study to the exam material and let that knowledge just flow out of your brain the day after the exam.

I'm one of those people. If I need to pass an exam I can do an intensive short-term study, get top marks on an exam or write an excellent essay or dissertation and then I just forget all about it (if I'm not genuinely interested in it)

I have an excellent history degree from a very good university. I spent most of my university years enjoying myself, doing some much needed growing up and then last-minute studying, cramming the material in and doing well in the exam.

If you'd asked me the next month anything about my degree subject I couldn't have remembered half of it. I certainly wouldn't have been good at teaching it.

A lot of degrees certificates are not any guarantee of a mind stuffed with higher level knowledge - particularly as if you just say 'degree' you aren't even sure the degree was relevant or academically rigorous enough.

I have a friend with a music degree who has taught both English and science at secondary. So although she has a degree, I doubt it has enhanced her teaching of those subjects! State school rated good/outstanding.

Very many physics teachers haven't studied physics at a higher level.

Thank goodness that is not the same in other sectors. Imagine an nhs consultant who got A’s and was good at medical stuff and got promoted to a Dr and then a consultant!

I’m a HLTA with A levels but no degree. I cover lessons and teach non core subjects like PSHE. My spelling, grammar and knowledge are better than some degree holding teachers. Honestly you can get in to teaching these days very easily, it’s such a low bar now. Don’t discount this teacher with lots of experience.

I had exactly this at secondary school - our Physics GCSE teacher was a chemistry teacher who had to do it as they were short staffed. It was clear she hated teaching physics and we all suffered because of that.

I'd have much rather had a teacher who was engaged in the subject with no degree than a teacher with a degree in Chemistry who hated the subject she was teaching.

As an aside, those of you saying that primary teachers in the past didn’t need a degree - well, they didn’t get a piece of paper with B.Ed written on it or wear the cap and gown, but our teacher training Cert.Ed ( mine was in 1975) changed to B.Ed overnight in the late 70’s., with identical content. So yes, teachers in the state system have always been required to have a degree or its identical predecessor the Cert .Ed.
Unlike the private sector, who can employ who they like.

You can have in depth subject knowledge without a degree.

I had a very knowledgable physics teacher at secondary school. He just couldn’t teach us, couldn’t explain theories in an easily understandable way for 14 year olds, couldn’t manage a class or his time. What use is that?

A degree is a very unreliable test of someone’s ability to teach.

If your children are doing well in the subject, and the results that parents and leadership teams are seeing are good, then there's no issue.

The teacher has earned her stripes, and probably knows the curriculum inside out given her progression - so if the SLT are happy then you should be too.

My dad is amazing at maths, absolutely astonishing mathematical mind, but couldn't teach his way out of a paper bag. Our friend teaches Yr6 but by his own admission, was utter rubbish at maths but is brilliant at teaching it.

Teaching isn't just about being an expert in a certain area (although it is definitely helpful) but about engaging students, teaching the principles and ensuring a positive and successful learning experience.

But she is teaching the children to high school level not degree level so a degree in English would be useless. If her kids are generally getting good marks then she’s a good teacher even though she isn’t qualified to degree level in English or teaching

I confess I would be shocked if I was paying for a private school who employed a teachers whose highest qualification was an A Level.

while I understood private schools do employ clever clogs who haven’t completed a teaching qualification, I have never heard of one that employs teachers who don’t have a tertiary qualification.

I would raise this with the head - how many other teachers don’t have university level education?

I run and own a company that employs 70 people, I have been board level on two plc’s and have been bloody good at my job and earnt lots of money and fuelled a great life for me and my family.

My brother has two degrees and a masters and could not do 10% of my jobs and has never earned half as much as me.

you don’t need a degree to do something you need to be smart and hard working anyone that values a degree over these skills is testament to the value of degrees.

I'd be more worried about having QTS than a degree tbh - I.e actually studied pedagogical theory as well as being observed teaching.
And no private schools don't have the same rules. I know lots of unqualified private school teachers. It's not what you know it's who you know in those circles.

But when a teacher is teaching a subject at A level they need to have a sold and wide understanding of the subject matter.

say a physics teacher only had a GCSE or A level in physics. The curriculum changed and introduced a concept they had never been taught and didn’t grasp?

A teacher who has completed a three or four year degree in their subject is unlikely to be caught out.

If there was a way to get ‘on hands experience’ in a very defined and discreet aspect of medical care, then it would be great. But there currently isn’t, so your point is mute.

She’s been to the university of life innit!

I understand that (and I teach) but I really don't think going g down the line of 'employ anyone to teach anything as long as they got some good grades at some point and can demonstrate good organisational skills' is the direction we should be moving. The degree is what makes us professional, surely? Not having a degree is a reason to reduce our pay further as well as justification for micromanagement.