DC’s teacher didn’t go to university.

[RabbitWedge]

Two of my DC’s are at the same secondary private school. It’s a small private school, not a well known name, but costs a small fortune nonetheless. An interaction with one of my DC’s English teachers at the end of term has made me feel uncomfortable.

‘Mrs Jones’ has worked at the school for a number of years. She is a very well liked English teacher; the children love her and she’s given high praise on the parents WhatsApp group. At the end of term, I was having a casual chit chat with ‘Mrs Jones’ and the topic of university came up. I asked ‘Mrs Jones’ where she went to university, and she stated that she had not gone and didn’t have a degree. I must have looked very taken aback, as she quickly added that she had an impeccable educational record (apparently all A’s and A*’s), she’d been tutoring for a number of years and working as a TA, at which point the school promoted her to teach English. I didn’t ask for this explanation, but she perhaps felt the need to justify her teaching.

I was under the impression that all teachers had to have degrees at the very least, and whilst I don’t doubt her popularity and delivery of her English lessons, I am concerned. I was aware that teachers in the private system didn’t need to be qualified teachers, but to not even have attended university seems unsuitable.

Would you raise this with the school in my position?

I’m curious why you think not having attended university makes them unsuitable ? Many teachers with a degree teach a different subject to their gained degree. A degree doesn’t teach you how to teach. With many years experience being a TA and then a teacher will stand her in much better stead than a newly qualified teacher effectively straight out of university ( with a non related degree) and education but very limited teaching experience and limited life skills. “Mrs Jones is highly thought of, very well liked and given high praise” ……….. so clearly her experience and life skills make her an effective teacher.

I worked in a primary school. As lovely as the NQTs were, some of them were woefully lacking in general knowledge. Yes they had a degree, but a degree in a random subject didn't necessarily make them good teachers. Some of them clearly wanted to be teachers not for a desire to teach and educate young minds, they were mainly interested in a well paid job and six weeks off to go travelling.

If your child has a teacher who is good at their job and knows their subject, be thankful for small mercies. Having a degree does not mean someone will be a good teacher.

Teachers don't need a degree to teach in a state academy either, and the great majority of secondary schools are academies:

"42.7% of primary schools are now academies or free schools, accounting for 44.2% of the primary school population. 81.9% of secondary schools are academies or free schools, accounting for 81.7% of secondary school pupils" (from gov.uk).

So your child may well be taught be a teacher without a degree in a state secondary; it's not just a private school thing. DH's department (state academy) has had one just recently. Some subjects are really really struggling to recruit (eg maths and science). And this is in an Ofsted Outstanding school with a relatively privileged intake and few serious behaviour problems.

I really don't see the problem here - would you rather have a teacher who has a degree but who can't teach well and doesn't establish positive relationships with their students or someone who the school has identified as being perfectly capable of teaching, has proven to be successful in position but hasn't got a degree?

Some things are more important. And I am a teacher who does have a degree!

One of the worst teachers I had had a PhD. It seems that she has the ability to teach well and the school promoted her as a result of this.
I wouldn't have an issue with this.

I'm sure she knows enough to teach at the level your child requires.

I've taught English to adults before and I haven't got so much as an English GCSE.

Personally, I would hope my child was educated at the upper level of their secondary education by a subject specialist with at least a BA in the subject.

Wow - elitist much.

I'd rather my kid had a teacher who actually knows their shit in depth than has a degree personally. It's how it used to be years ago and it worked. DBS check etc, absolutely, degree needed and lots of debt? Absolutely not.

Why do we have to choose between being a good teacher and knowing a lot about the subject?

A degree doesn't necessarily mean someone is higher calibre than someone who doesn't have one. That's a myth. Within the state sector you can learn to teach, through an apprenticeship type program. The students, mainly more mature, learn but also have hands-on teaching placements too. As long as the teacher has the correct knowledge, can engage the students and deliver the results, her not having a degree is irrelevant.

If I was paying to educate my imaginary child I'd most certainly expect it to be an elite experience.

I think all secondary teachers should have a degree in the subject they teach (or at least a 'higher education' qualification).

Primary teachers should have a degree in primary education or similar.

The qualifications of the deputy PM are clearly irrelevant as there are no minimum qualifications to be an MP and the entire sector is pretty much unregulated.

This statement is also true.

The qualifications of the teaccher are clearly irrelevant as there are no minimum qualifications to be a teacher in a private school and the entire sector is pretty much unregulated.

When was she promoted? I went to private school and we had a terrible Spanish teacher who left. Teachers have to be able to teach. Don't know if he had a degree.

How does spending 3+ years doing research make you a good teacher?

That's the kind of thing you should have researched before sending your children to a private school. I was privately educated and thought it was quite well known that teachers in the sector don't have to be qualified.

I have an English degree but I'd be a totally unsuitable English teacher. I think it's great that Mrs Jones has managed to progress to teaching in this way, and the school recognised her ability.

My mum was a primary school teacher for over 40 years. She doesn't have a degree. A friend of mine had a degree from Cambridge, but isn't a qualified teacher. But teaches in private schools.

My mum went to teacher training college and didn't have a degree, she was a brilliant teacher. You didn't need it when she started. Unfortunately the new head teacher bullied her out as a result (it was in a private school). If she's a good teacher it doesn't matter, there are plenty of teachers with no experience but a degree, what would you rather have?

This wouldn’t bother me, Dh doesn’t have a degree, is in a highly paid job that requires quite a lot of brain power. He’s not stupid in the least. Frankly as a person with a degree who knows a lot of people with degrees I think they may be slightly overrated. Passion for her subject matter, ability to deliver the curriculum in a way which means the kids get it, results. Thats what matters to me.

The UK's Deputy PM is not a teacher.

That used to be the case in Scotland. The law was changed a few years ago and now all teaching staff have to be fully qualified. I recall an instance of a private school in the west of Scotland being closed down after an inspection - it was a faith school and only one teacher had a teaching qualification.

I find it amusing that people can find themselves paying over the odds for a private education.

Some years back, another dept in my school failed an NQT (FOUR years and still failed to qualify - highly unusual. I think they'd be failed sooner nowadays.)
One day, I was sitting in the staffroom and heard "Bloody hell!"

There, pictured in a TES feature about a certain private school in Edinburgh, was a pic of the failed probationer/NQT.

The snobbery around people with degrees against people who don’t have them is incredible.

I don’t have a degree but have very good knowledge in a particular field. I often get asked advice which I give, but then those same people often don’t ask again if they find out I didn’t go to university.

If someone is good at their job so what if they don’t have a degree

What is your actual concern? Where is she failing your children in class? What lessons has she missed/taught incorrectly? What methods is she using which you feel aren’t up to the same standards as a university degree holder?

What’s the issue?

I wouldn't think it was great if she taught A level, as surely a degree in English (or similar) would be needed for that but if she is a good teacher, then GCSE would be fine.