DC’s teacher didn’t go to university.

[RabbitWedge]

Two of my DC’s are at the same secondary private school. It’s a small private school, not a well known name, but costs a small fortune nonetheless. An interaction with one of my DC’s English teachers at the end of term has made me feel uncomfortable.

‘Mrs Jones’ has worked at the school for a number of years. She is a very well liked English teacher; the children love her and she’s given high praise on the parents WhatsApp group. At the end of term, I was having a casual chit chat with ‘Mrs Jones’ and the topic of university came up. I asked ‘Mrs Jones’ where she went to university, and she stated that she had not gone and didn’t have a degree. I must have looked very taken aback, as she quickly added that she had an impeccable educational record (apparently all A’s and A*’s), she’d been tutoring for a number of years and working as a TA, at which point the school promoted her to teach English. I didn’t ask for this explanation, but she perhaps felt the need to justify her teaching.

I was under the impression that all teachers had to have degrees at the very least, and whilst I don’t doubt her popularity and delivery of her English lessons, I am concerned. I was aware that teachers in the private system didn’t need to be qualified teachers, but to not even have attended university seems unsuitable.

Would you raise this with the school in my position?

The questions are - are your DC’s learning? Do your DC’s like and respect her? If they are learning and there are no issues - what is the actual problem?

You don’t have to chose between them, you can have both. But only one of them is actually needed.

So someone who has spent 3+ years teaching is likely to be a better teacher than someone spending the same time researching.

As others have said, private schools can employ non qualified teachers if they choose to.

As an aside though, I have a degree in history (and a Masters), and you definitely wouldn’t want me teaching your child history, because I can’t teach. And the most important thing about being a teacher is, in my opinion, being able to teach.

If I found out my child was getting a non qualified, non university educated teacher as a new teacher to the school I wouldn’t accept it (private, so they can make their decisions but equally so can the parents who can and will vote with their feet). However if she was getting a teacher with a well accepted known track record in the school (which is apparently the case here) and I subsequently found out she wasn’t qualified and didn’t have a degree I wouldn’t care.

Because my degree doesn’t make me a competent teacher and her lack of degree but proven track record of teaching doesn’t make her an incompetent one.

I would, however, make discrete but urgent enquiries about how this did come to happen - as in does the school have a policy of employing any Tom, Dick or Harriet off the street if they fancy a bash at teaching, or was this an exceptional case because she was already there proving her value. If the latter, I wouldn’t give it a second thought. If the former, I’d be concerned!

If the students in her classes persistently have worse results than the rest of their cohort, I think you could raise concerns - not about her lack of a degree but about her teaching ability.

Private schools can hire whoever they like

What is the point of a degree in primary education? Think of your own primary school teachers- how many of them were good and didnt have a degree in primary education?

Teachers at state schools don't have to be qualified teachers either ... the law was changed to allow schools to hire people without QTS to teach.

Some extraordinary ignorance there. There are independent inspections just like OFSTED and my school and the previous does still use the TPS. I know if no colleagues in the private sector now who do not have or are working on a QTS qualification. We teach, with minimal issues of crowd control, we can choose with much more freedom what we'd like to teach or what our students would be interested in. Many of us have taught successfully in state but chose private for a variety of reasons, not least the reduction in fees for own children. So many sad generalisations on here.

My mum was a primary school teacher in the 70s. She had A levels and a teaching qualification but no degree. She also couldn't swim but was asked to teach the children swimming too. It was shallow water but I doubt this would be allowed nowadays. In contrast my daughter is also a primary teacher and has 2 degrees as well as previous experience working with children with specialist needs. I didn't realise the private sector was different on this

Just to add with my tongue less in my check - I would also want to be assured that this wasn’t a cost saving exercise - ie school habitually ‘promoting’ TAs off the back of ‘proven adeptness/talent in the classroom’ meaning in reality the school benefitting from ‘teachers’ at a much lower cost because they are offering a ‘pay rise’ but still to nowhere near what a qualified teacher would cost them.

If they consider her a teacher and pay her the same regardless, and she can teach and has been getting results then fair play.

I have a friend who is not only a teacher without a degree, they are head of department.

What a weird thing to be concerned about!

I wouldn’t want to pay for a teacher that has no degree… especially at secondary level.

does that make me a snob? Maybe.

What would you be hoping for by raising it with the school? Presumably they already know this because they employed her and she must be doing a good job otherwise they would've got rid of her?

Yes, this is true. But it's not a given that having a PGCE gives you the ability to do that.

And I think it might be hard to gain high level knowledge without a degree. Sure, knowledge of the curriculum is easily gained - it's designed for children to study. Personally I think teachers should have higher level knowledge than what they are actually teaching. All of DD's teachers with PhDs (she's had several) have been excellent but I guess you will get excellent teachers of whatever stripe if you can pick and choose (which some schools can).

This is normal in independent schools (don’t know about state).

Well, you could have someone who has spent three years teaching and has a degree or higher. Set against someone with three years teaching and no degree of any kind I think I'd pick the teacher with both.

Totally unacceptable. See if you can get her sacked.

I think University is massively overrated for a lot of careers

Do you really want to go down that route for your children?

A degree doesn't make you a good teacher, but in secondary at least, you need some subject knowledge. Imagine teaching physics without higher level experience?

Is she good at her job?
My best A Level Chemistry teacher did not have a degree. He had relevant industry experience and he was a personable guy. FWIW I do have a PhD and have taught secondary level, in state and private schools. I got good results but the PhD wasn't what helped me, except to support my very top end A Level kids.

My Father is a very successful private maths tutor, he has not completed a degree.

He is however a mechanical engineer via apprenticeship in the 70’s, he had stellar a’level results, he completed the best part of maths degree while working but it just wasn’t necessary for him to teach the curriculum that he could do in his sleep. His pupils love him, their parents love him and he consistently gets students through GSCE and A’Levels at a very high standard.

I hope this reassures you that the degree is not necessary for a teacher to be a subject matter expert with the gift for passing knowledge on to students.

This is always the problem with private schools. They can employ anyone, regardless of qualifications or experience.

Having a degree isn’t very relevant to being head of year.

Teaching is about being able to disseminate knowledge and skills in a way young people can understand and retain, the best teachers are those who have the ability to do this well.

This is two related, but different things:

knowledge and skills
ability to communicate these

A degree develops knowledge and skills, and does so in a way that equips the degree-holder to keep on learning and deepening and broadening his or her knowledge of the subject throughout his/her professional life.

The best English "teacher" in my department, who gets given the toughest classes and invariably gets them all to make steady (or better) progress, is an HLTA, with no degree. I have a PhD, not in English, and am a considerably worse teacher than him (although I am improving and will continue to work on my subject knowledge and pedagogy.