DC’s teacher didn’t go to university.

[RabbitWedge]

Two of my DC’s are at the same secondary private school. It’s a small private school, not a well known name, but costs a small fortune nonetheless. An interaction with one of my DC’s English teachers at the end of term has made me feel uncomfortable.

‘Mrs Jones’ has worked at the school for a number of years. She is a very well liked English teacher; the children love her and she’s given high praise on the parents WhatsApp group. At the end of term, I was having a casual chit chat with ‘Mrs Jones’ and the topic of university came up. I asked ‘Mrs Jones’ where she went to university, and she stated that she had not gone and didn’t have a degree. I must have looked very taken aback, as she quickly added that she had an impeccable educational record (apparently all A’s and A*’s), she’d been tutoring for a number of years and working as a TA, at which point the school promoted her to teach English. I didn’t ask for this explanation, but she perhaps felt the need to justify her teaching.

I was under the impression that all teachers had to have degrees at the very least, and whilst I don’t doubt her popularity and delivery of her English lessons, I am concerned. I was aware that teachers in the private system didn’t need to be qualified teachers, but to not even have attended university seems unsuitable.

Would you raise this with the school in my position?

Since academies, the only member of staff in an academy (Ie most secondary schools) who has to be a qualified teacher is the SENCO. It’s the marketisation of education - the academy chain bosses can cream off more money if they are paying unqualified teacher rates.

What about any skills a classroom teacher needs?

Of course you can’t raise it with the school. You’d think as you’ve sent your children private that you’d already know teachers in private schools don’t need a degree 🙄

My current ta (mainstream) was a teacher in a very fancy school. She's fab and I'd want her teaching my child, but yes the parents paying tens of thousands for their child to go there were blissfully unaware.

So what would you gain from complaining ? Sacking her or sending her to university ? Give over

Private schools are businesses, so will always go for maximum profit and minimum spend. Your Mrs Jones is probably as cheap as chips.

Having worked with many teachers who have had degree's i can assure you that a degree is not the be all and end all. A degree does not make a good teacher. In fact too many of them couldn't tell there arse from their elbow.
When i was at school very few of the teaching staff had degree's but they were first class teachers at one of the best state schools in the country. In fact i our Latin teacher was the only one i remember talking about his time at Oxford ( he was sent home from Oxford for half a term because he led others astray)

As everyone here keeps saying, apparently you can pick those up on the job, just as this non-degree qualified person seems to have done.

If I was a well qualified and competent teacher (I’m not) - I would choose to work in state schools simply for the gold plated pension. Private school teachers do not get that pension. Lord knows what standards they are held to. Money doesn’t always get you the best.

TAs in private school are not paid any more either! Just what is the extortionate fee for??

Private schools aren’t dictated to in the same way as state schools regarding essential attributes and qualifications. Some private schools get better academic results than some state schools but it’s not a given.

A degree or formal education doesn’t mean someone knows a subject better than someone who does have qualifications. It also doesn’t mean they are capable of teaching.

Bill Gates didn’t have a degree but I’m sure he was as capable as many computing graduates.

That's different though. All those professions need thorough in depth subject specific knowledge that you can't get until university level, and for several of them subsequent professional or postdoctoral training. To take a clinical psychologist as an example, they need a PhD, however, a counsellor doesn't. Similarly a mechanical or structural engineer designing bridges needs a degree, more practical engineers don't.

A degree doesn't necessarily mean you're a good teacher, it gives you subject knowledge but that can be gained in other ways. I'd also say that getting onto a secondary pgce requires a 2:2 as a minimum and for eg science with chemistry that over half your degree had chemistry as a major component. That science pgce would allow you to teach biology and physics too - they're very different subjects!

OP I think the things to focus on are, are they a good teacher, are the children progressing, and does the school get good pass marks in English exams? If the answers to those are yes, then I don't think you need to worry.

Well, according to this thread over in the Higher Education forum

Some Universities will go bust

teachers don't need to have degrees. Indeed, according to some posters there, only about 5% of the population should have degrees. I don't happen to agree. Our children should be educated by the best-educated that schools can employ.

This is why am I am always amazed that people automatically think that a private education is superior.
My daughter's science teacher in a state school has a phd.

If you don’t doubt the delivery of her lessons, what are you actually worried about? Either her teaching is fine, in which case be happy, or it isn’t. University is neither here nor there.

Absolute rubbish.
At gcse and A level you need in depth subject knowledge to teach properly.
Shall we have doctors with no degrees next?

Why should teachers of course have a degree? Teachers should be good at teaching. You can be good at teaching without a degree.

DDs school was private. Most teachers were TEFEL from abroad. They had no idea. I took her out.

You can also get some with excellent degrees who can't teach their subject!

During WW2 a lot of totally unqualified women went to teach when men were called up and a lot were excellent teachers, some were still teaching in the '60s and were awarded 'qualified through experiences' status.
A degree is no guarantee of teaching ability.

Why does 'still teaching' default to 'defecation', luckily I do a quick check!

I went to a private school. A new chemistry teacher started. Made a huge song and dance about everyone needing to call him Dr Bloggs rather than Mr Bloggs as he has a PhD.
No educational qualifications whatsoever.
Our lessons - genuinely - consisted of him writing out a chemistry-related essay on the whiteboard, and us copying it into our notebooks.

To the same ends that not having a degree/teaching qualification won’t mean you are a bad teacher, having a Masters/phd won’t necessarily make you a good one either. Some private schools flaunt these teachers as though they will be excellent teachers and far superior to those without, but it really doesn’t work that way. Teaching is about being able to disseminate knowledge and skills in a way young people can understand and retain, the best teachers are those who have the ability to do this well.

Cash won't make a difference, there are plenty of suitable people training and then leaving. Need to majorly reduce workload. I qualified 10 years ago and no longer in a full teaching role.

No, it’s not. I’d much rather trust someone who is time served through experience and demonstrable results, than someone who has just ‘studied’ at a higher level. The ability to educate others is much more than qualifications.

If she has experience and the necessary skills to get a class good grades does it matter

Think private schools can hire who they like….or whoever is the cheaper option….it’s not like state schools