DC’s teacher didn’t go to university.

[RabbitWedge]

Two of my DC’s are at the same secondary private school. It’s a small private school, not a well known name, but costs a small fortune nonetheless. An interaction with one of my DC’s English teachers at the end of term has made me feel uncomfortable.

‘Mrs Jones’ has worked at the school for a number of years. She is a very well liked English teacher; the children love her and she’s given high praise on the parents WhatsApp group. At the end of term, I was having a casual chit chat with ‘Mrs Jones’ and the topic of university came up. I asked ‘Mrs Jones’ where she went to university, and she stated that she had not gone and didn’t have a degree. I must have looked very taken aback, as she quickly added that she had an impeccable educational record (apparently all A’s and A*’s), she’d been tutoring for a number of years and working as a TA, at which point the school promoted her to teach English. I didn’t ask for this explanation, but she perhaps felt the need to justify her teaching.

I was under the impression that all teachers had to have degrees at the very least, and whilst I don’t doubt her popularity and delivery of her English lessons, I am concerned. I was aware that teachers in the private system didn’t need to be qualified teachers, but to not even have attended university seems unsuitable.

Would you raise this with the school in my position?

I may be unreasonable to find this hilarious!! Paying all that mo ey and you end up shocked that your money doesn’t buy a degree educated teacher. 😂😂😂😂
It may also be the fact I work in the much maligned state school system. Sorry op .

A friend of mine is head of geography at an independent near me. She started there about 10 years ago as a teaching assistant, did her HLTA qualification and ended up teaching geography, as they couldn't recruit a geography teacher! No degree (didn't even go to college) but she's very passionate about her subject, so much so, that 2 years ago they made her head of the geography department.

As others have already said...this would NEVER have happened in a state school, but the private sector can employ whoever they like - no degree necessary.

As long as your child's English teacher is competent and getting results, what's the issue?

And I say this as a 'teaching degree toting' teacher of 30 years. Degrees don't make you a good teacher...it takes a whole lot more!

I am a teacher (trained after years of working in schools in other roles) and my degree quite honestly taught me nothing more that I needed to know, than I could have learnt in the classroom. It’s literally a bit of paper that says I’m allowed to do what I do 🙈

My mum used to go into private schools to do contract work. She said the spelling and grammar errors in the staff room were shocking.

Teaching is a weird one. You can teach the correct things to pass exams without being particularly good at a subject yourself.

I have a friend who teaches English in a state school without a degree. She worked initially as a TA and then trained via school-based training I think. She definitely teaches GCSE not sure about A Level. I think she works in a school which struggles to recruit teachers. She seems to love her job and the children.

Hahah this is completely hilarious! This is what you get for sending your child to private school. Independent schools are not held to the same regulated standards so can have any old quack they want teaching your children. How ironic! Not really getting your moneys worth here are you. Loool. State school teachers must be qualified.

I know someone who is a uni professor. He never went to university but rose so highly in his field that now he teaches it.

I couldn’t give a toss providing the teacher is capable and good at imparting the right knowledge on others.

As a university graduate, I wouldn’t recommend anyone go to uni these days.

As others have said, many private schools are no longer able to afford the employer’s contribution to the Teacher’s Pension Scheme (state schools get a grant to cover it). This means that these teachers are being offered a private pension which isn’t nearly as good as the Teacher’s Pension. This is making private schools less attractive to qualified teachers.

The trouble is the government has so successfully distracted people with the squirrel that is VAT on school fees that they haven't noticed that the teaching in private schools can be pretty poor in parts.

Anyone can teach in a private school, no qualifications needed. You just need to persuade the head to give you a job.
Just because you’re paying, doesn’t make it better.
My mum taught in a private school: there was no teacher training or development. None of the teachers kept up with the times.
My mum was also a crap teacher and got sacked from every state school she worked at. Only job she could get was private.

She’s teaching at a private school, and doesn’t need a degree. You’ve said yourself she’s an excellent teacher and she’s clearly doing the job. Why would you think lack of a qualification takes anything away from that ?

It turns out that the answer to the other private school thread - where did the money go that Keir and Angela are saving from hard working private school families who keep their kids out of state - is on qualified teachers.

Properly funny.

I am not at retirement age and when I left school you didn’t need a degree to be a teacher or a nurse.

Problem is having made redundant or phased out teachers and nurses who don’t have a degree (friend who was the equivalent to a Matron looking after a group of wards was made redundant under the last Labour Government) it seems to come as a shock that we have a shortage of home grown teachers and nurses and all the other careers that now need a degree or higher levels of qualifications

Sounds a bit like private hospitals that have nobody on hand at weekends and the NHS has to step up!

This keeps coming up. All of the private schools my children have attended have vastly superior teachers to the state ones we’ve had.

My eldest is at a ‘outstanding grammar’ I taught him most of the science and language GCSEs. We and most other parents have tutors for their children. The teaching is shite. Teachers either just don’t care or are mostly incompetent.

@Winter41 the private schools around us pay a bit more, but smaller class sizes and better behaved children (as thankfully they can ask the poorly parented ones to leave) mean that they can retain staff. They often work much longer hours in-term times, but they have longer holidays.

@RabbitWedge are you happy with your children’s progress?

The best teacher my school was a qualified engineer, with decades of experience in industry, and no teaching qualifications. Since his subject was design & tech, he was in some ways much better qualified to teach what is basically entry-level engineering (electronics, pneumatics, hydraulics, materials, structure, etc) than many people who qualified as science teachers and were asked to teach Tech because of the shortage of STEM teachers. His results were excellent.

I have Primary QTS. Taught for 6 years in a junior school. I've taught GCSE maths for 18 years - I don't have a maths degree and fell into it accidentally. My students have had the top results in my department for years.

I keep thinking I'll get sacked 1 day- even though my employer knows - we'll see 🤐

My brother is head of year in his state school
and doesn’t have a degree. If they can do the job what is there to complain about?

This is similar to what I’ve just said - I’d much rather a teacher with years of knowledge and an understanding on how to impart it rather than going through the uni motions.

If you're not happy with the teaching, you can try elsewhere. Complaining is highly unlikely to get you anywhere. You could try another private school, after vetting the qualifications of the staff, or just use the fees you would have paid to get into the catchment of a good state school, all the teachers there will have degrees. It seems madness to pay all that money and be unhappy with the product you're getting. That is if you are actually unhappy, but if she's a decent teacher it seems a bit ridiculous to either complain or move schools.

Well, it obviously shows you don't need a degree to teach if you look at test results of a private school vs state. You sound very snobby and hope your child doesn't reflect your your bias.

Would you raise this with the school in my position

Don't be ridiculous. She's explained the school promoted her so they know. Its not like she lied about her qualifications. What exactly do you propose to raise with them. What would be your aim?? To get her fired? Sent to uni???

OP - you haven't actually said what is wrong about the teacher?

Can Mrs Jones control the classroom? teach the kids effectively? know about the subject? get good results?

What exactly is your beef with Mrs Jones?

As a teacher in state education I find this hilarious! People automatically assume private education is best and that’s not always the case. You know that teachers in private schools don’t always need to have QTS, you just assumed she’d been to university. Your making a massive investment and didn’t even check out something l that clearly would bother you. Why on earth would you raise it with the school? They know, they employe her.

Additionally, I’ve known many TAs who can teach and control a classroom far better than some teachers. It’s not always about a degree and I personally think this a shallow viewpoint.

That's right a close family member became a teacher via training college. My aunt became a solicitor without attending university. On her retirement she had a 'Head of' job title.

The op has said the teacher is a good, well regarded teacher, so clearly she is perfectly capable of doing her job without a degree.

On a broader note, requirements for degrees in job outlines can rule out older workers. I have some perfectly capable (again mainly older) colleagues who don't have GCSE equivalent.