DC’s teacher didn’t go to university.

[RabbitWedge]

Two of my DC’s are at the same secondary private school. It’s a small private school, not a well known name, but costs a small fortune nonetheless. An interaction with one of my DC’s English teachers at the end of term has made me feel uncomfortable.

‘Mrs Jones’ has worked at the school for a number of years. She is a very well liked English teacher; the children love her and she’s given high praise on the parents WhatsApp group. At the end of term, I was having a casual chit chat with ‘Mrs Jones’ and the topic of university came up. I asked ‘Mrs Jones’ where she went to university, and she stated that she had not gone and didn’t have a degree. I must have looked very taken aback, as she quickly added that she had an impeccable educational record (apparently all A’s and A*’s), she’d been tutoring for a number of years and working as a TA, at which point the school promoted her to teach English. I didn’t ask for this explanation, but she perhaps felt the need to justify her teaching.

I was under the impression that all teachers had to have degrees at the very least, and whilst I don’t doubt her popularity and delivery of her English lessons, I am concerned. I was aware that teachers in the private system didn’t need to be qualified teachers, but to not even have attended university seems unsuitable.

Would you raise this with the school in my position?

What level is she teaching, if it's A level I might be worried anything less I don't think matters. And these days curriculums are so prescribed anyone half intelligent could learn to teach individual courses, interesting the children and controlling the class are often more important than academic attainment.

@SensualDecay why do you think the teacher doesn't have a good depth of knowledge in the subject despite not having a degree certificate?

It’s really clear on DD’s private school’s website what qualifications each teacher has. Some of the much older more experienced teachers don’t have degrees (maybe just 1% of staff). I would also agree with the point made above - the teachers with PhDs and oxbridge quals are not necessarily the best at actually teaching.

you would be unreasonable to raise it with the school unless gaps in the teacher’s knowledge had been exposed, or her classes achieved demonstrably worse than other classes taking the same syllabus with a different teacher.

Common knowledge that private school teachers don’t need degrees.

Why are you concerned if she is a good teacher?

I've heard before that this sometimes happens in private schools. It's one of several reasons why I didn't want my DC to go to private schools.

She shouldn’t have opened her mouth to you. I really hope you can keep your astonishment to yourself about this and leave the woman alone.

My dad was a teacher for 30+ years without having gone to university.

He was in the services, then went to teacher training college and got a teaching diploma. No degree or university.

I've never had anything to do with private education but even I knew it wasn't mandatory across the board to be a qualified teacher like it is in state schools. If she's a good teacher though what's the issue?

My only concern about a teacher not having a degree in their subject is the question of whether their subject knowledge is up to scratch. Doing a degree doesn't make you more intellectually suited to being a teacher, it just gives you the subject knowledge you need to teach your subject. However, many secondary teachers are teaching outside of their degree subject areas these days, so the degree teachers have has become much less relevant to their classroom practice in recent years.

As an English teacher myself, I think it's perfectly possible to be a good English teacher without an English degree, but only if you have done the reading and research to develop the subject knowledge an English degree gives you in your own time. It would seem that Mrs Jones gets good results, is well liked and no one has ever had reason to question her abilities, so it sounds like she knows her stuff despite her lack of formal qualifications. Private schools can hire whoever they like to teach, and if the school feels she is skilled and effective, and you have no evidence to suggest otherwise, then I don't see why you would have any reason to complain. If she hadn't have mentioned her lack of degree to you, you wouldn't be any the wiser, by the sounds of it, so I think this is something you just need to accept the school's judgement on.

I thought that all teachers needed a degree, I was unaware that there were different requirements for private schools

I can fully understand your surprise and unhappiness about learning this fact about the teacher. However, are they good at their job? Do children achieve well in their subject? If the answer is yes to both then what does the degree, or lack of, mean?

I have worked alongside Oxbridge teachers who have amazing subject knowledge and fully understand pedagogy but when it comes to classroom presence they just don’t cut it.

I imagine this teacher has had plenty of training at the school they work in and their experience shouldn’t be discounted. Obviously, if your children aren’t doing well in their class then do obviously raise this as a concern. If not, do nothing.

Only Scottish teachers are required to hold degrees.

Now that I did not know.

Years ago, teachers didn’t usually go to Uni. They went to teacher training colleges. Thry managed fine.

I wouldn’t worry too much. Most universities don’t even teach critical thinking anymore and indoctrinate students into left wing ideology. If anything I’d see it as a bonus that she didn’t go to university. I will be encouraging my children not to bother going. Waste of money.

To all the posters on here declaring that having a university degree doesn't matter would be okay with your GP not having a degree? Or your nurse? Psychologist? Mechanical Engineer (who designs bridges)?
The education your children get isn't any less important.
How about the one particular piece of knowledge that your child needs won't be taught because the teacher doesn't know it.

Are you sure you structured that question correctly?

You've essentially written:

Despite not having a good depth of knowledge certificate, the teacher doesn't have a a degree certificate.

Can you see the problem with your sentence?

Posters should also be aware that teachers in private and academy schools are not required to have any teaching qualifications. Only Local Authority maintained schools are required to hire qualified teachers - and in England, the majority of state secondary schools are now academies, so that means most children of secondary age in England are being taught in schools where teaching staff are not required to be trained teachers.

There is a difference between not being required to hire someone with a teacher training qualification and hiring someone with a degree, however. Teaching is considered a graduate profession. It would be very, very unusual to find a teacher without a degree who had been hired in the past twenty years or so. Teachers without degrees are very much from a former generation who were able to train as teachers in teacher training colleges straight out of school.

Private schools make their own rules - they do not have to have qualified teachers.

It always amuses me as to why people would want to pay for private education when they don't necessarily get better education.

Friends son has no teaching qualifications at all But in September will be teaching in a secondary school so up to a level standard.

Teachers needing a degree is a fairly recent thing. My parents both trained as teachers in the late 60s at a teacher training college, 3 year course, left as a fully qualified teacher but it was a diploma not a degree.

As others have said what is the point of raising it with school as they will be fully aware.

Plenty of those training to be teachers who have come through the system in the last few years don't have anything like the subject knowledge they need for even lower secondary, despite having just gained a degree.

Subject knowledge can be acquired via a range of routes and built upon over time.

The better trainees accepted they needed to brush up and did. Those who thought they knew it all (when they couldn't write accurately, and wouldn't do anything about it) didn't qualify and have become part of that 8% statistic that's been in the news recently.

What an unpleasant post.

Yep you dont need to be qualified to tech in a private school. One of ds schools has a head of year who teaches PE with no degree. I'm sure he's,a great PE teacher but is it ideal as HOY? I'm not sure.