DC’s teacher didn’t go to university.

[RabbitWedge]

Two of my DC’s are at the same secondary private school. It’s a small private school, not a well known name, but costs a small fortune nonetheless. An interaction with one of my DC’s English teachers at the end of term has made me feel uncomfortable.

‘Mrs Jones’ has worked at the school for a number of years. She is a very well liked English teacher; the children love her and she’s given high praise on the parents WhatsApp group. At the end of term, I was having a casual chit chat with ‘Mrs Jones’ and the topic of university came up. I asked ‘Mrs Jones’ where she went to university, and she stated that she had not gone and didn’t have a degree. I must have looked very taken aback, as she quickly added that she had an impeccable educational record (apparently all A’s and A*’s), she’d been tutoring for a number of years and working as a TA, at which point the school promoted her to teach English. I didn’t ask for this explanation, but she perhaps felt the need to justify her teaching.

I was under the impression that all teachers had to have degrees at the very least, and whilst I don’t doubt her popularity and delivery of her English lessons, I am concerned. I was aware that teachers in the private system didn’t need to be qualified teachers, but to not even have attended university seems unsuitable.

Would you raise this with the school in my position?

I don't think I remember much from my degree, and none of it would be relevant to teaching. Yet you'd prefer me to a known good teacher because I can wave an old piece of paper at you? Seems silly to me.

If she were teaching at a university, I can see why a relevant degree would be needed to cover more in-depth topics. Teaching lower levels might benefit from a degree for teaching sciences or maths at A level, but not for GCSE and below, and not for a topic like English. Being able to inspire and teach the actual curriculum to kids is what matters.

Would you ever cop on.

It sounds like you are being a right plumbus about this. If the teacher is achieving good pupil academic results, there is really no issue. They have qualifications to a level higher than they will need to teach and sounds like that have excellent feedback.

If I wanted an A Level student teaching my DC, I’d hire one straight out of college. I expect my child to be being taught by ‘the best’ or close to, given I am paying so much.

Anyway, as said, I am going to be monitoring my child’s results very closely.

You don't still don't seem to understand that teachers don't need a degree, despite saying that you were surprised that they weren't needed.

It would be more of an issue if your daughter was studying at uni, let's say engineering, by a lecturer with no degree/masters/phd or in a different subject.

What happens if your daughters results decline- how are you going to tell that its the teacher or your daughters motivation? Blaming 1 teacher for your daughter not getting the grades because they don't have a degree is just petty. You said yourself that you've heard great feedback from other parents.

Forget the watch and wait. You clearly have an issue about it, speak to the head and see what they say. Why don't you ask how many of their teaching staff have degrees? Would you rather your daughter be taught by a newly qualified teacher with little experience (not slating newly qualified teachers!), instead of the current teacher that's been there years with great results/feedback?

A fool and their money! I’m happy to keep the qualified teachers in the state sector.

A friend works at a top public school - he does have a PGCE (and a load of other postgraduate qualifications.) Some of his colleagues have PGCEs. Some have qualifications like PTLLS/DTLLS (which I think has now been updated.) Several have PhDs.

Having a PhD means you know a lot about a particular subject - it doesn't make you a good teacher. I'm sure some are good teachers, but it's a different skill. Even with a PGCE, you might only be an okay teacher. Most of us will have been at schools with a variety of teachers with similar qualifications, and some will have made lessons enjoyable and you really learnt, and others covered all the syllabus but it wasn't inspiring at all, it was just somethingyou hot through. (And one couldn't even engage and control a class full of top set motivated girls.) One of the best teachers I knew wasn't actually a teacher - or she may have been, I don't know her actual CV. But she worked at the museum, and was brilliant at telling us about Romans or chalk downland wildflowers or hawks or Victorian life. I don't think any amount of qualifications can make you into that sort of teacher, just as an MBA doesn't make you a great manager - you can learn tactics and strategies and be better than you were without qualifications, but it doesn't make you great.

My kids school has has a CS vacancy advertised for three years.

I could teach it but:

a: It's an academy
b: Not for a measly 30k

I concur - as a Dr myself (and PGCE holder), what a PhD demonstrates is that you can pretty much teach yourself any subject to an expert level of depth.

This means PhD holders often make excellent HE/FE lecturers/teachers (but some pedagogy knowledge is still required - i.e. through a PGCE or the HEA programme), not so much at secondary/primary level where rote learning is favoured/required by the curriculum versus critical thinking skills.

I would say at secondary and primary level, a PhD is almost useless career wise unless one is also snr management and in charge of policy. But lots of people do a PhD as a personal challenge, rather than for career advancement (as did I).

Yes, this is the issue with subjects like CS - you can earn much more in industry.

Yup - I'm not going to cut my salary in half and double the stress just to teach (and I'm not even on a high wage for the industry I work in - but I don't like managing people so have no mgmt responsibilities - but that's a whole other thread!).

It's not even like the pension are massively better now that they've been cut and 'revalued'. 'Gold plated pensions' - something worthless made to look nice and shiny.

So is the teacher 18 then?

I'm assuming they are an adult with years of experience teaching.

Do you really not think people learn in any way other than at university?

Do you really think that someone having spent 3 years learning media history will make a better modern history teacher than someone passionate about modern history who has been working as a teacher for years?

@3CustardCreams

No you might not need a degree in teaching to teach. But you do need at least a basic bachelors degree in the subject you are teaching. Otherwise what’s the difference between you and your pupil just reading cliff/York notes.
But someone with a PhD in medieval history will be noted more knowledgeable on Tudor England or WWII than anyone else. It's not their topic.

A law graduate may teach English or A maths graduate may end up teaching computer science or chemistry. Again not their subject.

As far as I am concerned, ‘Mrs Jones’ has opened herself up to scrutiny by not ensuring she is properly qualified. I will hold her accountable should my child’s grades fall below the expected standard. If A Level’s are all that are required, why doesn’t the state sector employ people straight out of college? It would certainly go some way towards filling all the teaching vacancies!

We should still have minimum standards.

Just because someone doesn't have a PGCE doesn't mean they don't have any degree, nor other qualifications. Qualifications alone do not make a good teacher.

A teacher who isn't getting results should indeed be held accountable, but that can happen as much with fully qualified PGCE-holding teachers as those without. And what counts as "results"? A teacher who gets a student from a 2 to a 5 at GCSE may be a better teacher than one who has very able students who were always likely to get 8s and 9s across the board anyway.

Unless you're suggesting she's forged a degree certificate then she is properly qualified for the job she applied for. Your (ridiculous) issue should not be with her - go and take it up with your MP.

Is this a joke post designed to make private school parents look bad?

Again speak to the school head and board!

They are the ones employing! She didn't employ herself did she and YOU were the one who 1st posted that her students get great results.

If you don't like it, change to a different private school where every single teacher has a degree!

You aren't just paying for 'the best teacher with a degree'. It's the best teacher with experience, smaller class sizes, resources, grounds, the 'name' and contacts if its a well-known school, all other staff such as admin, maintainence, cleaners, school nurses, catering.

Quite frankly you are coming across as ignorant and that you know better than the school, just because you chose to pay.

There was a thread last week by a trainee teacher and she wanted some advice because her university educated and qualified teacher couldn't spell her subject specific words.
If this teacher is getting good grades for her students I don't see an issue. In fact your coming across very snobby.

Oh this can not be serious 😂

The thing is @RabbitWedge she is still the same teacher you like and were happy with before - she has a good record and has been there a number of years with good results - why does this bother you so much

getting a degree does not a good teacher make

I will hold her accountable should my child’s grades fall below the expected standard.

Lol. Your child could shock horror actually revise?

I expect my child to be being taught by ‘the best’ or close to, given I am paying so much.
Anyway, as said, I am going to be monitoring my child’s results very closely.

Why do you keep mentioning the money you're paying? Are you going to try and find out the qualifications of all the other teachers there?

Most indies will list where staff studied as parents like to see that.

i know one that will now only recruit new staff from Oxbridge and Russell group

When you qualify as a teacher, you are qualified to teach anything. A good teacher will research a topic or subject well to deliver it even if it isn't their specialism.