DC’s teacher didn’t go to university.

[RabbitWedge]

Two of my DC’s are at the same secondary private school. It’s a small private school, not a well known name, but costs a small fortune nonetheless. An interaction with one of my DC’s English teachers at the end of term has made me feel uncomfortable.

‘Mrs Jones’ has worked at the school for a number of years. She is a very well liked English teacher; the children love her and she’s given high praise on the parents WhatsApp group. At the end of term, I was having a casual chit chat with ‘Mrs Jones’ and the topic of university came up. I asked ‘Mrs Jones’ where she went to university, and she stated that she had not gone and didn’t have a degree. I must have looked very taken aback, as she quickly added that she had an impeccable educational record (apparently all A’s and A*’s), she’d been tutoring for a number of years and working as a TA, at which point the school promoted her to teach English. I didn’t ask for this explanation, but she perhaps felt the need to justify her teaching.

I was under the impression that all teachers had to have degrees at the very least, and whilst I don’t doubt her popularity and delivery of her English lessons, I am concerned. I was aware that teachers in the private system didn’t need to be qualified teachers, but to not even have attended university seems unsuitable.

Would you raise this with the school in my position?

Former teacher here (with two degrees FYI) - I'd just say when I started teaching (1981) there were quite a number of teachers in state schools (even grammar schools) who didn't have a degree, but a 'teaching certificate' (3 years study in education, not a specific subject for 3 years as in a degree, I believe). I can't say that they were (on average) less effective as teachers than those of us with a degree. Obviously times have changed, so 'Mrs Jones' is probably quite unusual, but I'd judge her on her results and the relationships she forges with her classes, not on a piece of paper.

I wouldn’t feel that I was getting value for money! State school have to select well qualified teachers. Why should you get less?

Having a degree isn’t the only thing that makes a good teacher but it is a building block for that and does show that the individual can ‘do’ rather than just ‘tell how to do’.

Having a degree marks a level of competence at some things you will want your child to learn.

The best teachers also need to be able to make good use of people skills (crowd control), know how to guide and nurture their pupils and they have to be able to learn from experience.

A school that can’t attract well-qualified teachers is probably weak in ways you haven’t seen.

A really good school that spotted a great TA (one with potential to lead a class) would probably sponsor or encourage them to add to their qualifications.

I suppose it depends what you want your children to get from their education. Secondary schools, whether private or state schools, teach children how to pass exams. That’s pretty much it these days. They are taught what they need to know to pass exams and nothing else, there simply isn’t the time or budget for it. If you want a better education for your children then you need to aim to send them to university, which requires getting good grades. If this teacher does her job that’s what they will get. If you feel uneasy then make an appointment to speak with the head of department or headteacher. You are paying a lot of money and are perfectly entitled to ask questions about any doubts you have. The school should be able to reassure you concerning this teacher’s past record - ultimately it’s your children’s results that matter, not the teacher’s. I personally would feel uneasy if I found out a teacher didn’t have a relevant degree, but I would have a chat with the school about my doubts in the hope that they can answer my concerns.

You do know that there are a lot of registered nurses that also don’t have a degree and never went to university.

If that’s your goal then no, you shouldn’t raise it with the school in respect to this individual teacher. You’d be pushing them to focus on box ticking when hiring/managing their staff rather than evaluating the impact a particular teacher actually has on the children.

You could ask more generally about hiring criteria for teachers and how the school assess applicants and ongoing teacher performance. Which may reassure you.

I teach in an independent school. English Dept of 10. 3 Oxbridge, 1Phd and rest all Russell Group English degrees. No chance we’d even interview someone without a degree. You need that subject knowledge for secondary.

I retired from teaching many years ago. I taught in state schools and private schools. At that time, none of my colleagues had degrees. We had all attended teacher training colleges and we were perfectly well equipped to do our jobs.

My maths teacher at senior school was mega qualified. Couldn’t teach to save his life. Teaching is an art form and if you’ve got a great teacher what does it matter what qualifications they have.

Off you pop to the school then. The teacher is well thought of and gets excellent results. What magical additional status do you think a degree would confer?

You are being absolutely ridiculous.

This is not the law. You can teach in academies and private schools if they are happy for you to teach there. You can teach in local authority controlled schools if you have QTS. This says nothing about one qualification below what you hold, but you do typically need a degree (but does not necessarily have to be in anything related to what you teach).

Private education gets you smaller class sizes and better facilities…… not better teachers!!!! Teachers don’t have to have a teaching qualification to teach in private education….. check what you’re paying for!!!!

Nonsense. If that standard was upheld schools would cease to function altogether.😂People teach in areas they have no qualifications at all every day. There is a teacher shortage. Ultimately, the only qualification required to be put in front of a class is "breathing".

Well, no, obviously not. It doesn't get you better teachers, it gets you the same teachers. Teachers move between the two sectors all the time. Much of the time, pay and conditions in private schools are worse than in state schools, so lots of teachers don't want to stay there long. But some prefer it.

Yes, you’re being unreasonable and coming across quite lacking yourself.
You can have all the qualifications in the world and it doesn’t mean you’re good, efficient or effective at doing the job!

What are you going to do when they point out that the justification is that she’s been teaching kids, including yours, perfectly well for years?

They’re not going to sack her because you don’t agree with her level of qualification, and they don’t have to justify their decision to hire someone who nobody seems to have any issue with other than you and only now because you’ve decided she’s not good enough for your kids.

I can’t imagine having so little trouble in my life that I’d resort to this sort of nonsense.

I'm sure this will have been mentioned previously but, to clarify - you don't need a degree or QTS to teach in state schools either. You can be employed as an unqualified teacher. You won't get paid as much as a qualified teacher. You do need a degree (not necessarily in the subject you qualify in to teach, fwiw) if you want to gain QTS and get paid on the teacher pay scale.

Teachers in state schools do not need a degree or a teaching qualification if they work in an academy. My friend queried why her daughter was taught by a teaching assistant and was told only the Headteacher and Senco need qualified teacher status.

Yep in the independent school sector a lot probably don't. They definitely don't need BEd or PGCE..a lot will have degrees but don't have to be in what they teach.
State sector..I.was amazed to find out HOY is not a teaching role and more of an admin/manager type role. So many of those may well not have teaching degrees.

There’s quite a few private schools that have unqualified staff and lack resources that state schools have, not the big ones you hear of of course. My colleague who now works in a state school was paid £17 grand 9 years ago to be a History at a private school, about ten grand less than at state and she had no work computer.

Rubbish - many academy heads don't have QTS - they are often business people

Genuinely it is only the SENCO that legally has to be a qualified teacher. The first thing you are told on the SENCO course! No-one whose children attend an academy should be trying to hold staff qualifications over independent school parents.

Well I only have 30 years teaching experience and B’ Ed ( hons )

I’m going back 30 years, but when I qualified as a teacher, there were 3 students who didn’t pass - they all went to teach in Private Schools straightaway.

Back in the day, before you could only teach with a degree, believe me that some of the best teachers had never been to university; teacher training colleges produced some excellent educators. Having a degree does not mean that a person is able to engage with pupils and stakeholders.
I worked in (in a non classroom based professional capacity) and was governor in a primary school which was constantly judged as outstanding; the headteacher, who was nominated for Headteacher of the Year, didn’t have a degree. (And no, I don’t agree with Ofsted and league tables, but that’s a whole different conversation).

I used to work in a private school (state school now) and the bear English teacher I ever met didn't go to Uni. Her head of department was a crap teacher.