Just Stop Oil are my heroes!

[incognit]

I have changed my name for this, but there is so much negativity and hate towards JSO, Insulate Britain, and ER on these boards, that I really want to risk putting my head above the parapet and saying "WOOOHOO! I AM RIGHT BEHIND YOU!!"

These are wonderful people sacrificing their own liberty and careers to bring attention to their cause - and it really works! There have been huge benefits, so many companies are aware of them, and taking steps to avoid being in the firing line by upping their investments in environmental mitigations.

And the huge amount of attention that insulation got- it is now high up on so many agendas! Why did it take protesters gluing themselves to the road to do it? It should have happened anyway, but it didn't. People had to make that sacrifice, but themselves in danger, lose jobs, careers, liberty, etc, to get results.

People moan about having their days disrupted, etc by JSO, without caring how much their days are going to be disrupted by the climate crisis running out of control.

I have cancer. I couldn't get to a chemo appointment once because of JSO. I 100% support their actions. I think their cause is so much bigger than one person. They are acting to protect millions.

No doubt people will come here and bitch and moan and I don't care really, at least anyone from JSO who is on MN will see my thread title.

JSO are doing nothing to further thier cause .. they might get a bit of publicity, but do you know anyone who has changed what they are doing after seeing a JSO protest ? If anything they are damaging the cause.

Good luck if they think they are stopping me Manchester Airport ..

I’m sorry, but the stabbings in Southport really highlights to me the utter irresponsibility of people like JSO. Thank fuck they were not out blocking the transport infrastructure in that region today. Thank God the police were able to get there quickly and apprehend that man. Thank God the ambulance crew were able to get there quickly and quickly transport the children to hospital.

They have my support. The message they convey is a million times more important than the items they deface in the grand scheme of things.

So if they had blocked the transport infrastructure around Southport today ( their goal for the actions they’ve been jailed for was to completely gridlock roads in the SE, read the judgement in the case) , so it was gridlocked and police could not get through the arrest the man stabbing children, and ambulances could not get through to the stabbed children, would JSO still have your support?

Is the ‘message’ still more important.

JSO had no way of knowing if a major incident would take place that day. Once you have gridlocked roads you have no way of letting emergency vehicles through without massive delay that can cost lives and certainly causes suffering.

So you'd have been happy to miss an interview/funeral/hospital appointment would you?

Why did you feel the need to name change? You're not risking anything at all by writing this other than people disagreeing with you

No, I would of been feckin' annoyed. However I would understand what they are trying to achieve....
a planet that is fit for future generations to live comfortably and not have to face famines, fires, species extinction, natural disasters, refugee problems, etc.
Depends how far forward you want to think,
next week or the next 100 years?

The issue with their methodology though is that they could easily have killed any number of the future generations they are apparently concerned about… it’s a bit rich to say ‘we are doing this for your children and grandchildren’ while simultaneously stopping those same children getting to hospital in an emergency or an ambulance getting to them.

And what if your child had life threatening injuries? And the ambulance could not get through? Would you still be minimizing g JSOs actions with phrases like ‘fecking annoyed’

then?

Or maybe you would think, ‘oh well, bigger picture. Do I really want to think just about this one child dying in my arms or all the future generations?’

But the end of the day, how you would react is not the point. JSO don’t get to decide how others should think or feel about the impact on them, nor do they have a right to sacrifice or martyrs others in their cause. Let them sacrifice e themselves for their cause, not others.

well, we kinda need the planet for everybodies kids and grandkids....not just one individual persons kids.
again, its a matter of how a big a picture you are looking at. Some people only look at their own tiny bubble, other people look at the big picture and see how things will affect humanity for generations to come.

You do realise this is the only thing that works though don’t you?

you know there have been many other groups, more peaceful and intelligent groups, who tried to get the vote for women. Do you remember who they are? Doubt it. It was the nasty, over the top suffragettes who made the difference.

And what happens when that infrastructure starts to become unusable for emergency services and situations due to climate change? Or hospitals unable to cope?

Jesus Christ, so you would be okay with JSO causing kids to die for ‘the bigger picture’. You do realise that that utilitarian thinking is common in genuine psychopaths?

If you are that bothered, you do also realise that the most effective way to reduce your carbon footprint is to end your own existence? Or is it just others who need to be killed for the greater good?

they were the suffragees and there are those who believe the actions of the suffragettes actually delayed women getting the vote.

Oh my dear God. This thread is really showing the fanatical and weak thinking of the JSO lobby. We have people here actually saying the death of children is worth it in a JSO action, and another also defending this with the frankly crap argument of ‘‘yeah! Yeah! Well it doesn’t matter because climate change means the roads will stop working anyway one day, so ha! Mum! Can you give me and Kevin a lift into town?!’’ ( I added that last bit because frankly that’s the level of argument I’d expect from quite a young teenager).

Thank you both for illustrating the veracity of the Judge’s comments when he said people who think like you have slipped into fanaticism.

They are entitled idiots who have a complete disregard for the lives of those they are disrupting, but expect everyone to be upset when they get their just desserts (namely Cressida's mummy).

if any of them try the same stunt at Gatwick when me and DH are going away they will find us going straight through them smacking them in the face with our hand luggage for good measure.

I was waiting for the S word to be thrown in! Hopefully you can see how childish that argument is?

Also thinking about saving millions of potential lives in the far future rather then one potential life in the near future does not make a person a psychopath.
Again, it just means they have the bigger picture in mind!

If I or a friend or relative was on the way for life saving treatment I would absolutely not understand

I'd probably want to hunt them down

And I certainly want to laugh in their faces for all the 'events' the prisoners will be missing

All lovely when that 'one life' is nothing to do with you

Greater good my arse

I assume you haven't procreated?
And you keep your carbon footprint to an absolute minimum?

In the context of you saying others being killed by actions like blocking roads is worth it for the planet, and that people who think it is not are just people who only care about their small bubble and not the wider picture, it is perfectly reasonable to ask why your own life should not be sacrificed. It is you, not me, who have argued people being killed is worth it. That's not my position, its yours.

So given that is your argument, explain to me why you should not die to reduce your carbon footprint, but is it acceptable for children to die in an action to highlight climate change?. I can't see the incoherence in your argument at all. It seems to rest entirely on, 'other people should pay the ultimate price, but not me'.

And yes studies have been done on this. Psychopaths when faced with moral tests are far more likely than other groups to pick the utilitarian argument, that is, that its worth sacrificing a child, or whatever is the case in the thought experiment, for the greater good. Like you, they believe they are just seeing ' 'the bigger picture.' When presented with the moral situation, I posed to you, that make the same arguments you are making.

It’s all lovely when their actions didn’t affect you or your loved ones.🙄

The supporters can send supportive letter to those in jail. They will have plenty of time to read them.👍

There's a middle ground here. Most on this thread seem to be either really pro or really anti.
There's a more nuanced view, which I hold.
I don't like the tactics of JSO. I think they possibly do more harm than good. But, I do genuinely believe that they mean well. That their hearts are in the right place.
I don't personally think any JSO protesters are OK with people dying as a result of their protests. I think that's a myth that's evolved. I saw a JSO woman being interviewed, and she said they have a clear blue lights policy, to disperse if asked by the authorities for life-saving reasons. Others here say otherwise. It's hard to know what the truth is... But it does seem to be The Daily Mail, The Sun and The Telegraph etc who print the negative side. So, I take it with a pinch of salt. Truly dreadful papers in my view.
I do think the climate emergency is terrifying, and I do think millions will die if fossil fuel mining doesn't just stop.
I feel desperately sorry for members of the public caught up in JSO protests. I feel desperately sorry for women and children in the global south who are facing some truly devastating challenges.
I disagree profoundly with the lengthy prison sentences, when prisons are in crisis, and rapists often get less. That's so offensive to women.
I also find the glee some posters have expressed about it very disturbing.
I don't know what the answer to all these complexities are. But, I know people need to stop attacking eachother and start calmly listening. The culture wars and side-taking and othering these days is really getting out of hand. We need to talk! And moreover listen. If we don't, people can turn into the bogie man in our minds rather than our fellow citizens.
I'm finding these threads very upsetting, and I don't know why I keep revisiting them?! A compulsion perhaps?! 🤷‍♀️

@TryingToSeeTheFunnySide posters on this thread, who support JSO, have said they are ok with children dying as a result of JSO actions for the ‘bigger picture’. I have seen JSO protestors being interviewed and when confronted about people missing funerals of close relatives their lack of empathy and compassion was striking. With emotionless faces and blank voices they just ‘well that’s regrettable but climate change!’ They very clearly did not care at all.

JSO can claim all they like that they let emergency vehicles through but that is not possible when they have gridlocked an entire road infrastructure for a vast area. Read the judgement. They wanted to gridlock the entire SE. you tell me how you let emergency vehicles through in that. Even in a smaller action, you do understand that the point of emergency vehicles is that they need to get through at speed in life threatening situations? Being let through slowly by JSO activists trying to slowly clear a way through the chaos they created rather defeats the entire reason for emergency vehicles. The ‘we let emergency vehicles through’ argument is a marketing tool that clearly does not hold any credibility. It’s dangerous and it causes suffering,

As for the sentences and comparing it to rapists. Well the JSO activists had previous convictions, were on bail, were escalating in their actions, expressed no remorse and a clear intention to carry on. So let’s compare that to a rapist, so a man with previous convictions for rape, committed another rape whilst on bail for a previous rape, was escalating in the severity of his attacks and expressed no remorse and a clear intention to rape again. That’s the comparable situation. Do you really think he would get a shorter jail term that JSO did? No. He’s be looking at a very, very long sentence.

And as for not respecting women, if JSO had achieved their intention, a woman making an emergency call to the police when under threat from a man, would have probably found the police could not reach her to protect her.

I realise you are trying to take the middle ground, but you really can’t do that without informing yourself of the facts. The judgement in the case is a good place to start.

@slantedroof I haven't read the whole thread.
All I can say is that I know people in real life who support Just Stop Oil. I don't know any actual Just Stop Oil people myself I don't think. Not one of the people I know who supports Just Stop Oil would defend the thought of anyone dying on a Just Stop Oil protest, obviously that's absolutely monstrous. Life is sacred. Whether here or in the developing world. But, I just haven't seen that in real life. I'm worried people are getting a very inaccurate picture.

Of course there's middle ground.

Same with the middle-east. Totally possible to feel sympathy for both Palestinians and Jews.

JSO are painted as monsters, and I don't believe that to be the case at all.

I reiterate that I really don't agree with their tactics. But, I genuinely do think their hearts are in the right place.
Probably pacifists who hate the thought of anyone suffering.

Until you've actually sat with them and asked them directly then you don't know. Neither do I.

I'm not sure where all the mud slinging is getting people? Surely better to politely dialogue?