Or is DH? Stuck on holiday with him

[WITWHBIWAGT]

Bought lunch in a small supermarket today as per agreement. We are on holiday and needed quick food. I got a shop bought meat sandwich and some bread and hummus. It was slim pickings.

So, DC decided they didn’t want the shop sandwich and I’m vegetarian. So I said to DH, ‘I am afraid it’s the shop bought sandwich for you.’ I said it in a kind of resigned, ‘bloody fussy kids’ kind of way - I thought.

He got cross and asked why does he have to eat it? I said you don’t but DC don’t want it and I don’t eat meat. ‘So why aren’t I allowed bread and hummus?’ - me ‘I’m not saying you are aren’t, I’m just saying no one else will eat that sandwich’ - he continues ranting. I say, ‘it’s fine, we can just chuck the sandwich away’.

Anyway he goes on being cross and telling me how awful I’m being. I get a bit tearful. Oldest DC comes and hugs me. DH storms off and slams the door. Then a bit later comes angrily out and angrily eats the bloody sandwich. I try and make conversation but I’m feeling a bit upset.

DC then go off somewhere so I calmly explain that I wasn’t dictating he should have the sandwich, more was commiserating. He sulkily says thank you for explaining and then says, ‘but can you see how I might think you were dictating what I eat’. I say no I don’t, because it seems obvious to me that I’m saying oh no, you poor thing, the DC are being fussy again and you are going to be stuck with that boring sandwich.

He launches into another tirade about how awful I’ve been (I got a bit irritated with him twice in the last week - I think most people would have but that’s another thread) - called me arrogant. Said my irritation with him was as unacceptable. I asked him if he thought it was ok to speak to me how he was. He didn’t answer. Carried on his tirade until I just sat quiet for long enough. I had a bit of a cry.

Was I being unreasonable and should he say sorry for getting so angry and storming off? To be clear, I stayed calm, didn’t once shout and didn’t call him any names or have a go at him but also didn’t just apologise because he’d completely misunderstood me for some reason.

I’ve got another week of holiday left. I just want to go home but have to play happy families for DC.

Yawn

Please ditch the joint counselling entirely and find a counsellor who you can see alone that specialises in emotional abuse.

Not necessarily. As children we often sympathise with our mums more than our dads. It’s only as we get older that we may start to realise that mums can be unreasonable too.

Thanks for that insight but she hasn't been unreasonable. He has.

OP you did nothing wrong. As you say on another day he would have laughed it off. Honestly would you be able to distance yourself a bit. Difficult on holiday I know. I'd be tempted to get a flight home. Let him stay there with the dc. Of course that would upset the dc. I think I'd be opting out a bit. Maybe going off for coffee by myself or with a dc. Good luck op. Feel free to dm for extra support Xxx

Thanks for your comment but I didn’t say otherwise.

And seeing as that was the very first comment, it’s fair to assume I hadn’t read the whole thread yet…

It's probably a "straw that broke the camel's back moment".

how often do we get a thread on here about an argument that seems really trivial, but what we haven't witnessed are the days, weeks, or months preceding that could have been building up to this.

@WITWHBIWAGT if you've treated him like a human dustbin, and he's mentioned it before, don't be surprised when he gets fed up of being treated like that, it sounds infantilising and he probably feels you aren't making any attempt to understand it from his perspective.

Also it sounds like a typical holiday moment, everyone's hot, tired and hungry.

maybe get him to choose his own food next time, or at least ask him what he wants/doesn't want.

Thank you so much. That’s very kind. I won’t go home as it would be too upsetting but I’m a dab hand now at friendly on the outside but not allowing myself to be vulnerable. We had a good time at the beginning of the holiday so I had relaxed. Lesson learned.

Who said I treat him like a dustbin? I’m happy to put food that doesn’t get eaten in the compost. He has decided he will eat all left overs. He will literally eat anything. He doesn’t care. I didn’t tell him he had to, I was assuming he’d want to. When he says ‘daddy dustbin again’ it’s all him. I have nothing to do with that self given nickname. I never make him eat stuff up. I don’t care what he eats. It’s up to him.

The thing I do find a bit worrying is that the op can’t see anything wrong in her attitude towards him which also seems to be what he got annoyed about.
she likely is expressing annoyance toward him and an attitude that if he doesn’t do it her way then it’s wrong which is bound to get him annoyed
refers to his parking as bad which is pretty subjective
wont give him autonomy to choose where he puts wine bottles
says he called her evil when he didn’t.

yes his behaviour is wrong but op also needs to accept where shes gone which it sounds like he is looking for

Sorry, but I think you should stop arguing in front of your kids to the point where you end up crying and DC have to come and rescue you. That's what you should focus on, not a sandwich.

Presumably so there would be a bit more choice?

Only on Mumsnet would buying an extra sandwich you thought somebody else might want be considered a grave misdemeanour.

If she'd bought exactly the same food and her DH had kicked off because he and the DC both wanted the meat sandwich the usual suspects on this thread would be accusing her of being a selfish vegetarian who undercaters for meat eaters.

Sounds like the obvious solution is for the OP's husband to be responsible for magicking up a more acceptable spread next time, rather than scrolling his phone from the comfort of the car and waiting for someone else to provide.

Unbelievable that some posters would seek to defend a man verbally abusing his wife until she cries and her children witnessing it go to comfort her.

Utterly shameful behaviour defended by some.

Children NEVER forget this stuff EVER, yet posters think the man has ANY excuse to inflict such trauma and emotional abuse on a child.🙄

OP, you mind yourself, get through this however you can, get home and seek serious help.
You all need to get away from this vile abusive pig.

I apologised both times when I spoke with irritation. It’s not me at my best. I do think a bit of irritation in a long marriage is normal though, and it’s his disproportionate anger that is the problem for me. I can see the my words could have been misinterpreted but his anger was more fitting to me having just kicked him. And once I’d explained that I wasn’t expecting him to eat the sandwich, that should have been an end to it.

We both knew the parking was bad - slightly blocking the way, he stayed in the car so he could move if needed, while I dashed in. My comment re the bad parking wasn’t a criticism of him, just a fact that he’d have said the same. It wasn’t a judgement statement about his skill.

The bottles of wine could have easily shifted during transit and been pulled to the floor when getting bags or coats out. We do lots of things his way. With the wine I was simply trying to prevent a shattered glass bottle and wine everywhere situation. I was irritated because he had decided to do it that way despite me explaining my thoughts. He knew best.

When I used the word evil, I wasn’t directly quoting and was using hyperbole to let off steam. He does have a tendency to list all my failures, character flaws and wrongdoings in an argument. Our counsellor has pointed out that this isn’t ok. Because it’s not.

I agree completely. I don’t give a shit about the sandwich. I really don’t. I didn’t start the argument. I tried to explain what I meant so he would feel better, but he chose to continue berating me. My only input to disagree with him was after the DC had gone. I tried not to cry but it came out. You are 100% right that this is toxic. It’s why we are in counselling. If it doesn’t change it is separation time.

‘Grave misdemeanour’ made me laugh. Thank you. It really is terrible of me isn’t it. I will make sure to do better next time!

My comment re the bad parking wasn’t a criticism of him, just a fact that he’d have said the same

I imagine it’s a build up of ‘facts’ like these, which do sound critical and probably getting to him.

He does have a tendency to list all my failures, character flaws and wrongdoings in an argument.

Thats ironic because aren’t you doing the same?

DH obviously over reacted about the sandwich situ but I still don’t really understand why you brought this lone processed plain ham sandwich when you are a family of four.
What if both the kids wanted it?

If you brought it specifically for the one child who refused to eat what the rest of you were sharing then they should have been given the sandwich to eat end of, you are the parents here and meant to be a team - a child doesn’t dictate and mean that DH is lumped with it by default.

You shouldn’t be arguing and sobbing in front of your kids either. Why didn’t one of you as adults say “let’s have this conversation later/in private”. I think you are both at fault here and sounds quite toxic all round.

Please don't listen to the nonsense on here you don't need to defend yourself.

Shaming you for crying when you are being emotionally abused is disgusting.

You need support away from here that won't gaslight you into believing its your fault or even that you are equally to blame.

You aren't. He's abusive and will not change.

I didn’t say to HIM the parking was bad. I just described on HERE why I was rushing. We had agreed for him to pause in a bad position while I run into the shop to grab something as we were in a hurry.

I am not going to justify the fucking sandwich yet again. May be it was a bad choice, may be it wasn’t. I tried to get variation for choice in a limited range of options. I had to think fast. I didn’t see it as a ‘bad’ option. Just equally shit given the choice. My question, though, is about his reaction to my to my statement. He misread it and massively overreacted. If I had deliberately chosen a shit option for him out of malice then fine. May be anger is warranted. But no-one would do that. Especially me, and he knows that.

I didn’t argue and sob. HE argued. I tried to explain what I meant, calmly and without name calling. I didn’t sob. I shed a couple of quiet tears.

I am not listing his flaws. Certainly not to him. I’m saying that I find his disproportionate anger unacceptable. I have said it to him many times and the counsellor has pulled him up on it too. He, in a good moment, can see that his response is coming from ‘child’ rather than ‘adult’ mode.

He once ranted and raved at me for 20 minutes on a journey because he didn’t think I was listening to him well enough. Basically, I listened but didn’t agree with him (it had been a calm discussion but we had different views). He has a problem. Im clear on that. Sometimes I just need to figure out if I’ve been U or not because his level of anger makes me question my own judgement - so I pop on here to double check. It helps.

Thank you. I am realising that but sometimes just need to double check as it’s hard not to get into self doubt. And sometimes I do get it wrong and have been U. A couple of good friends know the score. They have suggested he has a narcissistic personality style and what I see fits the tick list sadly.

You're contradicting yourself now though, because from what you said it sounds like you didn't want him to have bread and hummus.
It's the shop bought sandwich for you then.. Also saying poor you are stuck with that boring sandwich.
To me it would sound like a wind up.. I don't think he reacted in the best way but if this is something you do a lot it would get on my nerves too.
Just tell him to sort food next time.

You went in to the shop (which didn’t have much choice) on your own to get lunch for everyone in a rush due to the parking situation. It was always going to be stressful and there was a good chance someone wouldn’t be happy. You now need to focus on avoiding these stressful situations for the rest of the holiday to try and enjoy it/ let the children enjoy it. Go for easy days.

you can sort out/end your marriage when you get back

Start writing everything down so you can refer back to it (make sure he doesn't have access).
Seek help from a domestic abuse service. Don't think it isn't bad enough. They are very experienced with emotional abuse and will help you.

@WITWHBIWAGT there is some absolute nonsense on this thread, I'm so sorry that you've come here for help and instead have to read some of these comments and feel like you have to defend yourself all over again.

I recognise a lot of what you've said - not listening well enough reminded me of when I was on the receiving end of a rant because I didn't reply to my ex cheerfully enough! It's absolutely emotional abuse and I can promise you'll be so much happier once you're out of it and not walking on eggshells every day.